Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Long-time Townsend Brown inquirer Jan Lundquist – aka 'Rose' in The Before Times – has her own substantial archive to share with readers and visitors to this site. This forum is dedicated to the wealth of material she has compiled: her research, her findings, and her speculations.
natecull
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Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by natecull »

Hi arc
Your comments on the possible Russian experiments with electromagnetic effects on human physiology reminds me of the Havanah Syndrome that American diplomats etc suffered when in certain overseas postings. Apparently new technology has enabled scientists to determine it is definitely artificially generated electromagnetic in nature and can be aimed in beam format towards target(s).
Havana Syndrome has always sounded like Russian tech to me, yes, fitting the profile of the legendary 1970s/80s "scalar weapons". Hoping that one day we find out more about it.


Jan:
Back to Witten’s oral history, he also said something like a man named Brown from Indiana or some midwestern state claimed that an isotope of Bismuth would have antigravity properties.
I believe that would have been Townsend talking about his concept of "gravitational isotopes", which is not quite the same idea as "isotope" in nuclear physics (as in, a nucleus with the same number of protons but more or fewer neutrons). Rather, it would be an atom that's chemically identical to others, but has a differing response to a gravitational field compared to inertia. That's what his patents about "beneficiation" of the alleged stuff were generally about (using various centrifugal techniques, similar to how normal isotopes are sorted, to detect anomalous gravitational vs inertial response).

I keep forgetting which elements Townsend pegged as potentials for gravitational isotopes, if we ever had an exhaustive list, though I know that silicon compounds (ie, in quartz, in beach sand, in "Sandusky clay", in loess, and in lunar dust) were mentioned in writing. Bismuth compounds may well have also been in that list.

The idea of a gravitational isotope has two very large red flags against it, when viewed from a mainstream physics perspective:

One, Townsend did not have a mechanism to describe what might cause a gravitational isotope (as opposed to how to detect them). The mechanism couldn't just be a change of the neutron count in the nucleus. In the 1950s, "something to do with mesons" could have been accepted as an answer, because the "mesonic forces" were still mysterious. But after the Standard Model was complete in the 1970s, that answer no longer can be used.

Two, the existence of even one gravitational isotope completely destroys the theoretical structure of General Relativity, because it breaks the Equivalence Principle. That is, unless he was also considering such an isotope to have a lowered response to inertial forces as well.

Both of these are serious stumbling blocks to mainstream physics even beginning to imagine that gravitational isotopes could exist.
The report on the material, once in USN hands, was that it had a peculiar ability to induce temporary weight loss in nearby materials.
That would certainly be very interesting if that tale is true. The actual existence of some physical material with those properties might explain why Townsend went down the very strange and otherwise very unmotivated Gravitational Isotope rabbit hole. (Unmotivated, that is, apart from the 1920s experiments and writings of fellow Ohian, Charles Brush, during Townsend's teens and twenties).

Townsend's ideas of "passive counterbary", as described in the 1950s, appear to center on Gravitational Isotopes and on the idea of "energising them" with static electrical charge to cause a loss of gravitational response (and perhaps inertial response) such that it would be a little like putting hot air into a balloon. He seemed to still be thinking about this in the 1970s with his sand shaker experiment and his musing about lunar dust fountains (a real, observed effect) being caused by ultraviolet light in sunlight inducing a static charge on lunar dust causing it to lose weight and "loft".

It's his mention of loess (a fine silty clay, always very light) that intrigues me, because the hills in Canterbury in New Zealand are just filled with the stuff. Of course, if something were lighter than it should be but it always was that way, how would we know if it was anomalously light?

I remember writing a time travel short story in high school in the 1980s, based on one I'd read combined with the Townsend Brown / Tesla fanclub stuff I'd been reading, with my justification being that if the gravitational isotope conjecture plus "gravity equals time" stuff from GR was true then maybe lightning striking a sufficiently weird rock could displace you in time. It scared my teacher (it was a religious school and the story sounded too much like ghosts for his liking).

Regards, Nate
Going on a journey, somewhere far out east
We'll find the time to show you, wonders never cease
arc
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Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by arc »

Jan Lundquist wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2026 5:31 pm ARC, you listed the range of possible measurement domains to which the Kitselman solutions might be applied. all of them probably fall within a “6 Degrees from Townsend Brown” circle, somehow.

We know he was fascinated by the time based variable that affected his piezoelectric detectors. But I think there is a good possibility that he was engineering variability into metamaterials as early as 1956.
Rose, I think there is much more to the "time" element than previously mentioned. Previous versions of a TTB device displayed an unusual ability to produce a measurable output, after the power supply was disconnected. The output dissipated over a short timframee. This seems to imply an non-standard form of interaction not currently talked about within modern physics circles. It raises multiple questions.

I am beginning to wonder if some of the research at Cern has a sidelink to this topic as they explore not only atomic structures with interactions but also the possibility of interactions with/between higher dimensions. The existence of entanglement raises the question of what else is out there , waiting to be recognised.

It might be purely sci-fi speculation but perhaps it raises the question of a specifically sculptured form of interaction that pushes/folds/tunnels "energy" sideways into a higher dimensional arena, that allows it to bleed/flow back as the local-system lowers it's apparent energy signature and/or powers down.


Regards
arc
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the canopy of stars
arc
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Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by arc »

I am increasingly doubtful that the effect is gravity or potentially even Gravitational in nature. That often stated term Anti-Gravity is like saying water is Anti-Fire or air is Anti-Rock. Hot and cold are diametrically the opposite of each other and share a conceptual relationship to each other, they both involve temperature, it is just the absolute measurement of that temperature that differentiates the two. I increasingly think the effect is nothing to do with Gravity/Gravitation, it just does not behave as one would expect a gravitational induced event to behave or exhibit/interact. Potentially it may be some as yet unexplained force/event.

My current thoughts on this from my own limited knowledge and observation of gravitation. It is something that "emerges" in relation to matter, the more matter in one location the more apparent the gravity. Travel out far enough from a body of matter into a region of very low matter and we dont experience gravity. All the Apollo missions and current NASA moon mission demonstrate this. They also demonstrate the ability of mass generated gravitational field to extend beyond the physical matter body such as to enable the latest Moon mission to use the weak G-field of the moon to physically influence the craft altering its orbital parameters enabling a slingshot around the moon without the need to expend fuel in a turn-around and reverse course maneuver.

If we take a metal coil and run an electric current through it we know it creates an electromagnetic field around itself, that field extends out into space falling off in intensity as distance increases. When the source of the current is quickly removed the field collapses and creates a current flow in the opposite direction within the coil. Think about why that happens, why would a field reverse course.

As someone once said to me - We dont see light given off by a lightbulb suddenly reversing direction after the light is switched off, racing back into the lightbulb to reverse-light it. So what is the other entity that is operational when devices such a coils and capacitors are operational... If an electric field (x) and a magnetic field (y) are at right angles to each other ( As taught in School/University science), what is present, operational and unobserved (unmentioned) in the Z.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1srHzqf ... sp=sharing

Photons travel in straight lines , until something interacts with them to change that condition. We do see Gravitational Lensing by distant galaxies bending the light of objects behind them so it travels "around" the galaxy or is "bent" to a new path. If gravitation warps space, what warps gravitation...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ztcj5c ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/148ECX- ... sp=sharing


Light is an interesting entity, more so especially when considering interactions with E and M fields.


arc
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the canopy of stars
natecull
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Re: Townsend Brown 1936 and 1939. Georg Otto Erb 1945

Post by natecull »

I increasingly think the effect is nothing to do with Gravity/Gravitation, it just does not behave as one would expect a gravitational induced event to behave or exhibit/interact. Potentially it may be some as yet unexplained force/event.
Townsend seemed to have similar thoughts, although one of the reasons why he felt there was a gravity connection is because (at least in the 1930s version of the "Differential Electrometer" with its spinning oil-submerged disk) there seemed to be statistical correlations with the position of the sun, moon and stars.

In the 1970s he seemed to have moved on to the solid-state world with his quartz rock sensors.

Gregory Hodowanec (https://hodowanec.fyi/home) always seemed to me to be chasing a similar solid-state dragon a decade after Townsend, and also thought there was a gravitational correlation, but I don't know how his data compares with Townsend's, and there's also the problem of replication.

But it may well be something much weirder than gravity. General Relativity as we know it today certainly doesn't seem to have anything to say about this effect.

Travel out far enough from a body of matter into a region of very low matter and we dont experience gravity. All the Apollo missions and current NASA moon mission demonstrate this
That's not quite the case. The strength of Earth's gravity field of course declines with the square of the distance, but the reason why objects in orbit don't "experience" gravity and why everything floats isn't the strength of the field, but the fact that they are in free-fall within the gravity field. That's why the Vomit Comit works to simulate microgravity: just put a plane in a parabolic dive and even though you're still very close to Earth and in full Earth gravity, you don't feel the field because you and everything else in it are accelerating at the same rate. When the plane pulls out of the dive, the gravity "returns" but it's really just that now objects touching the plane's body are being decelerated by the electrostatic force of the plane's atoms's electron orbitals, and that deceleration is felt unequally. The atoms of the ground are what do that to us when we're standing.

I think it's the electrostatic repulsion of electron orbitals that causes our sense of "physical contact" and everything in Mechanics that that implies - but I'm not sure, it might be the Pauli Exclusion Principle instead. Ie that electrons really really do not like to touch each other, at a level that's much stronger than the electric force. Or there might be a magnetic interaction between the electrons too, since they're also considered to be moving electric fields? So three potential mechanisms that generate the repulsion that keeps matter apart from itself when at very very close range?
When the source of the current is quickly removed the field collapses and creates a current flow in the opposite direction within the coil. Think about why that happens, why would a field reverse course.
That's a really interesting question! I hadn't thought about that up to now. Now it's going to haunt me. Yes, why does an electromagnetic field feel compelled to "collapse" back into its source and not just "switch off" instantly?
If an electric field (x) and a magnetic field (y) are at right angles to each other ( As taught in School/University science), what is present, operational and unobserved (unmentioned) in the Z.
A really basic, naive interpretation of the old Lorentz Force Right-Hand rule would suggest that the Z axis is some kind of "motion", but yeah, what would "motion" mean for a static field?

I think this is possibly why Oleg Jefimenko introduced what he called the "electrokinetic" field to take a similar place.

Nate
Going on a journey, somewhere far out east
We'll find the time to show you, wonders never cease
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