Queen under pressure

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kevin.b
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Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

As a tribute to those who know who they are, those that have lived ,and died, Under pressure, litterally in the submarines, and in their daily lives.
And because I consider we are, Under pressure, we are a consequence of pressure, bearing down on us.
And this video clip captures some of the present pressure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrEN-YKLBM
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

Perhaps an explanation is in order of why I feel this is so important.
Most people will accept that under water that pressure increases as you go deeper? pushing down on You?
But hardly anyones thinks the same way about pressure and atmosphere.
But what is happening under water?, why does PRESSURE increase so?
How can some whales cope with PRESSURE, and go between surface and great depths without any apparent effects?

Paul will realise the limitations of diving to depths, his life depends on this.
What does the whale know, we don't?
What does the Eagle know, we don't?
I consider gravity does not exist, so what is creating the effect?
How would anything be able to cope with pressure, as a whale does, or float high above as an eagle does?
Something must be common to both, something must be glaringly obvious.

Any ideas?
Kevin
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natecull
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by natecull »

kevin.b wrote: Most people will accept that under water that pressure increases as you go deeper? pushing down on You?
But hardly anyones thinks the same way about pressure and atmosphere.
Er, yes, in fact they very much do. At least mainstream scientists do. You've no doubt heard the analogy 'we're living at the bottom of an ocean of air'?

But what is happening under water?, why does PRESSURE increase so?
[SNIP]
I consider gravity does not exist, so what is creating the effect?
Yes, that's pretty much only a problem for models of physics (like Unity) which *don't* believe that gravity exists or that an attractive/compressive force increases linearly to the centre of mass of a mass.

For everyone else, not a problem.

It's one of the main reasons why I scratch my head at Unity and go 'huh? This is obviously incorrect and disproven by facts, at least at first glance.'

I don't completely discount Unity, but it is very very very very strange and requires a LOT of explanation for what by ordinary physics are perfectly straightforward and obvious deductions.
How would anything be able to cope with pressure, as a whale does, or float high above as an eagle does?
Something must be common to both, something must be glaringly obvious.
Well of course the condition of *pressure* is very much common to both, whether in water or air. Though water pressure tends to be a lot higher than air pressure in absolute terms.

I'm no marine biologist, but I would imagine the scientific answer to 'how do whales equalise pressure in their body cavities' is that they do it much like submarines: pressure-tight skin, lots of liquid where possible, air compressed to high pressure where necessary, and either take care not to surface too fast, or have a mechanism for filtering nitrogen bubbles out of their blood.

If they do it differently, then I would be very intrigued.

In fact the claim is made by marine biologists that many others species of deep-dwelling critters CANNOT cope with the low pressures at sea level and sort of rupture as we might in space.

How eagles fly at high altitude without oxygen masks could be interesting. But certainly the human body doesn't go 'pop' at those altitudes due to pressure differential, so why would birds be different? And they also have a lot of body modifications, hollow bones and the like, which possibly act like natural G-suits.

Show me a bird flying in *vacuum* and I'll be extremely impressed.

I don't actually understand why you think these questions are not answered by mainstream physics. Though I'm open to being convinced otherwise.
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

Natecull,
I don't know about a whale, but I will try to percieve of what it has in common with an eagle, and that is a field about it.
I know I can detect the field about feathers, and they exhibit a strong field.
If you imagine a whale with a strong field about it, then perhaps there is no pressure upon the whale as it goes deeper and deeper?
Because there is no such thing as gravity, just an electrical attraction, if you create a field about anything, then the attraction is nullified.
If therefore a submarine did exactly this, it could go deep deep down, with no force pushing into it, because the pressure is attraction in all directions at once, and if you reverse the attraction locally, then there is no pressure?
You may be able to create cities underwater, as long as you maintain a field about them, otherwise the attraction in all directions would crush anything, and the attraction will be compounded along field lines towards the surface, the surface been the sand at the bottom of the sea.
I think this is how the megaliths were constructed by locally altering the field about the stones temporarilly, and how leedskin built coral castle.
Because gravity is simply about field , not a seperate force at all, it compounds up to the surface dependant upon the materials above surface, the hydrogen in H2O will allow this compound attraction to equate to a pressure reading relative to normal surface pressure of 14.69 Lbs per square inch, I think?
All this talk of steam has me thinking about what occurs when the change of state occurs, the pressure is reversed, and is trying to expand outwards, is this the compound attraction in the hydrogen been released and trying to go out into adjoining atmosphere?
I wonder what happens if you release steam under water at a depth matching the pressure of the steam been released?
Is a bubble travelling upwards simply demonstrating that gravity does not exist?
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by natecull »

kevin.b wrote: I know I can detect the field about feathers, and they exhibit a strong field.
Interesting. That seems like it might relate to Grebennikov's beetles.

Is a bubble travelling upwards simply demonstrating that gravity does not exist?
You mean other than that it has a lighter density, ie, specific gravity and therefore experiences a upward force by displacement of the surrounding medium?
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by htmagic »

The deeper you go in water, the greater the pressure. In water, 2.31 feet deeper in water will add 1 psi or 1 pound per square inch. And Kevin, you are correct as normal atmospheric pressure is 14.696 psia (absolute) pressure).
The water is denser than air so the pressure will be higher. The deeper you go, the more weight of water on a body and it can get to several tons of pressure for a submarine at great depths.

Now the field concept is interesting but I believe Nate is right about deep sea creatures exploding at atmospheric pressure as they cannot leave the depths of the sea. I think scientists would have noticed it if there were one. I think whales have special bladders and appendages to control pressures. And Nate is right about specific gravities.

Kevin, I believe you are saying there is a force shield around the sub. If it was plasma, I would think that this could be modeled. But adding high voltage and water is a death wish if anything goes wrong. I don't know how well I would feel inside a tin can charged to 1 or 10 million volts on the bottom of the sea!

Gravity exists. It may be electrostatic in nature but gravity still exists and works under water. The spiral flow of the aether (or neutrinos) still passes through water and keeps it from floating away into space. And that is a good thing!

Now if you can generate a field to keep the pressure from crushing you, I'm sure the Navy would want to use it for their people trapped in subs.

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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

htmagic,
I am by trade a pipe fitter welder, and I have worked with steam a lot, something is bugging me.
It's as if someone is nudging me to go deeper into pressure, I know something, will have to think about it.
I have bizzarely dowsed under water and on ships, just to make sure nothing alters, so your spiral vortices do carry on down to the surface, and under the surface.
I have also worked on the highest pressure hydraulics systems, and pressure has always bugged me, can't explain it properly, but such as oil is not compressable, but you can increase its pressure, and pressure is a push in all directions at once.
This moon floating about which alters the tides is the biggest clue, it's so obvious what it's achieving, pressure.
There cannot be any difference from the deepest point of the ocean to out in space, it's just a question of pressure, the atmosphere can be compressed, and space must be compressable.
It's just a case of directing the pressure
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natecull
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by natecull »

kevin.b wrote: I have also worked on the highest pressure hydraulics systems, and pressure has always bugged me, can't explain it properly, but such as oil is not compressable, but you can increase its pressure, and pressure is a push in all directions at once.
Hmm, how does that work, I wonder? What physical mechanism stacks up those force vectors in incompressible substances?

I presume the 'force' that we feel when we physically push something is not electrostatics but the Pauli exclusion principle, as the electron shells of adjoining atoms resist overlapping? Or a mix of both? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_exclusion_principle

But the Pauli 'force' isn't counted among either strong or electroweak, from what I can tell.

Rather strange, that the most basic physical effect we know of isn't considered 'actually' a force!
This moon floating about which alters the tides is the biggest clue, it's so obvious what it's achieving, pressure.
Or negative pressure. Mass has a lower density than vacuum if you think of gravity as a pressure effect. An object is a hole. A piece of 'empty space' is the actual 'matter'.

(Does that work for the ocean as well as vacuum?)

Hmm, I wonder if that's the line of thinking that led Brown to speculate about 'dielectricity?'
And whether that has anything to do with Dirac's sea? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_sea

I believe Dirac had some ideas that didn't get picked up by the mainstream, but I'm not sure what they were.
Dirac's quantum electrodynamics made predictions that were - more often than not - infinite and therefore unacceptable. A workaround known as renormalization was developed, but Dirac never accepted this. "I must say that I am very dissatisfied with the situation," he said in 1975, "because this so-called 'good theory' does involve neglecting infinities which appear in its equations, neglecting them in an arbitrary way. This is just not sensible mathematics. Sensible mathematics involves neglecting a quantity when it is small — not neglecting it just because it is infinitely great and you do not want it!"[8] His refusal to accept renormalization, resulted in his work on the subject moving increasingly out of the mainstream.
Odd for someone who practically invented quantum mechanics.
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

Natecull,
Thank you, very helpfull, must be something about New Zealand?
As I am a hobbit.
Diracs sea of negative is spot on, imho.
Here's a thought, what is different about a thousand foot tube filled with water, above sea level, and the same filled with vacuum?
What is happening, what is travelling better in each substance? You can substitute whatever substance you like in the tubes, why is there a difference of PRESSURE at the base?
A thousand foot tube of mercury?
Under pressure, bearing down on me.
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by htmagic »

kevin.b wrote:Natecull,
Thank you, very helpfull, must be something about New Zealand?
As I am a hobbit.
Diracs sea of negative is spot on, imho.
Here's a thought, what is different about a thousand foot tube filled with water, above sea level, and the same filled with vacuum?
What is happening, what is travelling better in each substance? You can substitute whatever substance you like in the tubes, why is there a difference of PRESSURE at the base?
A thousand foot tube of mercury?
Under pressure, bearing down on me.
Kevin
Kevin,

Look at the specific gravities or densities of each material. Each material has a density of so many pounds per cubic foot. Water has 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Now if you have a column above you, you can figure out the square feet cross sectional area and then you will know the pounds per foot pressure of that column bearing down on you. Mercury is more dense, so you will have greater pressure on you. The denser the material, the more pounds per sq. ft. bearing down on you.

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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

htmagic wrote:
kevin.b wrote:Natecull,
Thank you, very helpfull, must be something about New Zealand?
As I am a hobbit.
Diracs sea of negative is spot on, imho.
Here's a thought, what is different about a thousand foot tube filled with water, above sea level, and the same filled with vacuum?
What is happening, what is travelling better in each substance? You can substitute whatever substance you like in the tubes, why is there a difference of PRESSURE at the base?
A thousand foot tube of mercury?
Under pressure, bearing down on me.
Kevin
Kevin,

Look at the specific gravities or densities of each material. Each material has a density of so many pounds per cubic foot. Water has 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Now if you have a column above you, you can figure out the square feet cross sectional area and then you will know the pounds per foot pressure of that column bearing down on you. Mercury is more dense, so you will have greater pressure on you. The denser the material, the more pounds per sq. ft. bearing down on you.

MagicBill
Yep, but WHY?
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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by htmagic »

kevin.b wrote:
htmagic wrote:Kevin,

Look at the specific gravities or densities of each material. Each material has a density of so many pounds per cubic foot. Water has 62.4 pounds per cubic foot. Now if you have a column above you, you can figure out the square feet cross sectional area and then you will know the pounds per foot pressure of that column bearing down on you. Mercury is more dense, so you will have greater pressure on you. The denser the material, the more pounds per sq. ft. bearing down on you.

MagicBill
Yep, but WHY?
kevin
Kevin,

Why, you ask? Because one atom is packed with more "stuff" than the other! Mercury has more protons, neutrons, and electrons packed together than water. Uranium is even more dense and heavier than mercury or lead. These bits of nuclear material are more prevalent in the higher atomic weight elements. Since gravity acts on everything they exert more "pressure" on that with the most "stuff". The material is more dense and there are more bits of nuclear material.

Now, the denser elements (with higher atomic weight) have more electrons than the atoms with lower atomic weight. So if an electric field was able to attract all these electrons, that object may wish to be attracted as opposite charges attract. So you need a HV positive pole and these electrons will chase the positive. 10 million volts would certainly attract lots and lots of electrons!

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Re: Queen under pressure

Post by kevin.b »

htmagic,
How can I accept that gravity exerts a force , when I don't consider gravity exists?
http://www.netcom.com/~sbyers11/index.html
Pressure interferred with by all matter in the path of the flow.
The interferance patterns are what you observe, as matter and mass.
That interferance pattern tends to equalise out because of circulating flows, but is locally influenced by the mass turning, thus the pressure zone of a weather zone moves, though in reality it doesn't move, the mass moves but gives the impression to the fixed observer that the weather moves.
It's all about the space moving, not as it looks to our limited senses.
View all from the point of view of space, not from the mass it creates, if you want to catch a fishy, THINK as a fishy.
if you want to catch the universe, THINK as universe.
And if you do manage to think as universe, is mass moving?
Kevin
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