Chapter 72: First We Build A Fire

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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bravo

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Gewis,

How right you are. I wrote the first message sort of tongue in cheek, waiting for someone to say exactly what you have. And thats from someone who has spent his fair amount of time at the head of a class. No one knows more than I do how much time is actually wasted in a classroom. Even when the teacher is pulling out all the stops ... sometimes the music just never gets played.

And its pretty obvious that Linda must have been able to self school herself well enough to keep up with her classes, wherever they happened to be.

Also with the amount of travel involved I am sure that Linda was learning far beyond her desk bound city limit style companions. .Especially from parents who see the value in reading and supply challenging material.... MarkC
twigsnapper
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Seasons Best to Everyone

Post by twigsnapper »

Thinking of all of you of course during this holiday.

Gewis, you asked me a question and I am sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to you.

" It's already come out that the Caroline Group "split" with the western side and the Russian side with the onset of the Cold War. How many other covert international groups do you suppose there are? How much overlap is there? And since, if there is more than Caroline, and they'd all be secretive, how aware of each other might they have been? Or be? Did you ever bump into strange things in the dark that your group knew nothing of?"

Ah, but you see, thats the nature and complication of intelligence gathering. There are always " things that go bump in the night" which you don't expect. You have to accept that ahead of time. As diligent as you are there will always be surprises. You can never underestimate the validity of any report. After awhile it becomes a matter of intuition well fed by facts. You have to be able to pick out what is the most important at any one moment.

How many other groups might be out there? Countless number! Some are big enough to make changes in the substance surrounding them. And an intelligence agent will find himself, like his big sister, a submarine , sometimes the best thing to do is just sit on the bottom and listen for the noises made by a displacing force. It makes for an intersting career. Quiet perhaps but interesting still.

Always appreciate your input. Again, sorry for the delay in response.

twigsnapper
Mikado14
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Re: Seasons Best to Everyone

Post by Mikado14 »

twigsnapper wrote:Thinking of all of you of course during this holiday.
I echo those sentiments to all as well.
twigsnapper wrote: And an intelligence agent will find himself, like his big sister, a submarine , sometimes the best thing to do is just sit on the bottom and listen for the noises made by a displacing force. It makes for an intersting career. Quiet perhaps but interesting still.
For those interested......he didn't mention this for nothing.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: no

Post by Mikado14 »

Mikado14 wrote:
Mikado14 wrote:Mr. Griffin,

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you met Dr. Brown on the one occasion. Did you ever meet him on any other occasions? You seem or appear to have a vast knowledge of him personnally as well as his feelings and the like and I was wondering what your source was?

Mikado

Griffin wrote:Mr. Mikado-

No.

Griffin
Is that "No" to not meeting on any other occasions or "No" you will not answer your source or is it "No" to both questions?

Mikado
Aversion or forgetfulness?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
James Barrett

behind the scenes

Post by James Barrett »

Mikado,

I happened to watch the classic film " The Hunt for Red October" the other night. Have only watched it , maybe ten times! But its easy to reach for when you want a good movie. And of course much is made of the sub with a propulsion system that has " no moving parts" and what a threat that might be to the other Navies of the world, the US in particular, in this instance, And of course thoughts of Townsend Brown float immediately to the surface.

And then today I picked up a pretty good book on this type of thing (maybe spurred on by Mr. Twigsnappers mention of a submarine ... sitting and listening .... and I am like you Mikado, I happen to be one who is seeing the value in Mr. Twigsnappers comments and the connection to things we need to notice) So I leafed through these pages of " Blind Mans Bluff" and bumped right into this extremely interesting observation (page 478 paperback)

“In a lengthy interview Admiral Watkins also explained to us why he thought the U.S. sub force still could have countered the Soviets under the ice, as well as some of the moves he and others made to intimidate the Soviets psychologically . One of the most fascinating involved Watkins decision to allow the U.S. Naval Institute — a private, nonprofit organization– to publish the first edition of Tom Clancys’ submarine novel The Hunt For Red October in 1984 even though some admirals believed it would enable the Soviets to learn more about U.S. submarine capabilities.â€
Mikado14
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Re: behind the scenes

Post by Mikado14 »

James Barrett wrote: .... and I am like you Mikado, I happen to be one who is seeing the value in Mr. Twigsnappers comments and the connection to things we need to notice) So I leafed through these pages of " Blind Mans Bluff" and bumped right into this extremely interesting observation (page 478 paperback).

Be careful of him....he wields a mean magazine...<g>. But yes, he chooses his words, wisely.
James Barrett wrote:Did anyone else know that a private organization published the first edition of the book which boldly mentions what is very transparent in being Dr. Browns system? and then the Navy uses the book as a message to the Soviets , telling them that they know about such a propulsion system and most readily are prepared to engage it? Now thats a remarkable observation! And actually an admission if it isn't pure propaganda. Might as well have said .... "The United States has such a sub technology ( at least ) and if you cross us you will be terminally sorry. A hornets nest indeed. A very silent deadly one.
Ever wonder why it was called a "Caterpillar Drive"?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
flowperson
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Re: behind the scenes

Post by flowperson »

Mikado14 wrote:
Ever wonder why it was called a "Caterpillar Drive"?

Mikado
So many arms, so few steering wheels ?

flow.... :P
Dancing is better than marching
Trickfox
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Re: bravo

Post by Trickfox »

Mark Culpepper wrote:
And its pretty obvious that Linda must have been able to self school herself well enough to keep up with her classes, wherever they happened to be.
Just for the culture I would like to mention that the word Autodidact or an Automath is a mostly self-taught person.

Linda was likely just such a person Mark.

Maxwell Faraday was also just such a person. The philosophy of Jean-Jacque Rousseau cames into play here:
Rousseau advocated an educational method which consisted of removing the child from society—for example, to a country home—and alternately conditioning her through changes to environment and setting traps and puzzles for her to solve or overcome.
(wiki)

This type of moving around going from school to school was exactly what Rousseau was talking about.

Perhaps there was another aspect of Rousseau which inspired her. The one that stated that Politics and Morality should not be seperated.

I hope we learn a lot more about her as the next chapters come.
Merry Christmas Everyone!!!

I was aware of the pertinence of the EHD drive system but this info about the (NPO) US Naval Institute publishing the book first before Tom Clancy is very interesting.
So who was Jack Ryan? (as in Dr Ryan perhaps the genius who plays the main role) Sounds like Morgan may have been the read deal there. I just read the Wiki Bio on Ryan! It is suppose to be a fictional character but there is so much detail that I get the fealing some of it is based on true stories.


Trickfox
James Barrett

Drive System

Post by James Barrett »

Take another look at the configuration that turned into Dr. Browns " flame jet generator"

If it was set to a different purpose ( remember to look at his patent applications ).... what would that look like off the paper and in real life? Some engineers have a vivid natural imagaination, but I can see the similarity. my two cents worth.

Jack Ryan was probably a blended character. Spoke fluent Russian but I believe also worked for the CIA .... had a lovely home on the Eastern shore .... had a family ..... for all of those reasons I would look for more than just one person to draw from but Clancy was good at that. He scoured patent applications and patent records as well and he I am sure was well aware of a propulsion system that had no moving parts. Also he probably was assisted by several people " in the know" that felt a need for his book to be created at the time. Agendas remember.

If the Admiral was right perhaps that novel spooked off some agressive behavior on the part of the Soviet sub service. I mean , in their view point ... if a simple writer knows about such a thing then .... it must exist? JDB
kevin.b
The Navigator
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Post by kevin.b »

This sub fits the time, and was used for experiments?
http://hnsa.org/ships/albacore.htm
http://www.ussalbacore.org/
Kevin
fibonacci is king
James Barrett

might fit too?

Post by James Barrett »

This might fit in there somewhere too kevin.

When you ask about satellites being put up its hard to ignor these guys. But no one knows about them all that much. Here is an interesting newsletter which might shed a little more light.

For those interested in working for the NRO apparently you have to come through another agency ( for example, the CIA) and then be assigned to the NRO. They apparently don't hire directly. So you are basically talking about the DOD here. When someone says they work for the " Department of Defense they could be anywhere in the intelligence family. So perhaps that could be a worthwhile lead Paul. Who around Dr. Brown during those years worked for " the Department of Defense"? Dr. Sarbacher? Mr. Kitselman? any links in that direction?

http://www.nro.gov/PressReleases/vandenberg.html

"The last CORONA mission was launched from Vandenberg on May 25, 1972. Today's announcement marks the first time the NRO and USAF have acknowledged the fact of an NRO satellite launch prior to the event. Other that CORONA, all other NRO launches remain classified."

That news blurp by the way, I might point out, just came out today so perhaps some things are in fact slowly becoming available.

and maybe this

1. On the evolution of secrecy with regard to satellite reconnaissance in its early years, see Jeffrey T. Richelson (ed)., National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 225, Secrecy and U.S. Satellite Reconnaissance, 1958-1976, July 13, 2007.

JDB
Mikado14
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Re: Drive System

Post by Mikado14 »

flow wrote:
Mikado14 wrote:

Ever wonder why it was called a "Caterpillar Drive"?

Mikado

So many arms, so few steering wheels ?

flow....

James Barrett wrote:Take another look at the configuration that turned into Dr. Browns " flame jet generator"

If it was set to a different purpose ( remember to look at his patent applications ).... what would that look like off the paper and in real life? Some engineers have a vivid natural imagaination, but I can see the similarity. my two cents worth.
Mr. Barrett,

You just answered my question.....a caterpillar has segments, the Flame Jet Generator has segments......fluid dynamics......Kelvin....Schauberger.....non-entropic

Now, who the hell are you? You just didn't pull that out from where the sun doesn't shine and you claim to have no scientific background and I do not believe it was a lucky guess....or who helped you?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
James Barrett

actually

Post by James Barrett »

I did get that information from a place where the sun doesn't shine. One of their mottos is " We Own the Night" but any of you could have found it if you had put your eyes in the right direction. I sort of enjoy doing that, JDB
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Mikado 14,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af7O7xfmsRQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCDb-0sbwnc

How would the hobbit have ever got there without a little help from his friends and the wizard?
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Trickfox
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Post by Trickfox »

We Own the Night - the motto of the NYPD street-crimes division
“We Own the Nightâ€
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