Chapter 72: First We Build A Fire

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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linking information

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Somewhere Griffin there is historical documentation that Symington and friends came to Odlum for help in maintaining the rocket systems of the United States after their funding had been cut. It was Odlum singlehandedly through his corporation Atlas ... that funded the program until the tide of opinion turned and other funding became available. I believe that it was Symington himself who said that without Odlums help we would not have had a space program.

Sometimes some of the most devastatingly important people in our history .... are the least recognized. Elizabeth
Griffin
Senior Officer
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maligned

Post by Griffin »

Elizabeth-

Yes, and even unjustly maligned.

As ever,

Griffin
James Barrett

old threads

Post by James Barrett »

When I saw your comment about ICBMs in the 60s I thought I had recently read that in something that Dr. Browns friend Beau Kitselman had been involved in. So Ilooked for it alittle and found this message from Mr. Kitselmans daughter which you will find interesting I think Elizabeth.

viewtopic.php?p=9141&sid=6cf350e7f61a36 ... 8851f#9141

and this was the part I really thought that you would appreciate. I notice that its sort of an old message and I wondered if Paul has heard more from this source?

" Some anecdotes on Beau Kitselman: Physicist, Mathematician, authority on eastern religions, psychotherapist, author. Studied Sanskrit at Stanford the last year it was offered, and was translating several Sanskrit volumes that were a gift of King Prahadjipok of Siam when he passed away. The Sanskrit does tie in with physics, actually: modern 'discoveries' in physics were actually uncovered in India around 5000 years ago, and some volumes he was translating were on those ancient physics studies. Several colleagues wanted him to publish his findings in Scientific American, but since Papa didn't have a PhD, the magazine wouldn't. Rules! Oh, well. Anyway, he was one of the 'top 5' mathematicians in the US for many years. In the 1960s, (when only weirdos had computers!) he wrote software for the intercontinental ballistic missiles, so that they would readjust their trajectory every 6/10ths of a second, when previously they had readjusted only every 8 seconds.

Hmmmm I thought. I wonder if Elizabeth remembers this since this was written Feb. 5, 2006. So in the sixies? Beau Kitselman was writing software for ICBM missiles. Now THAT has to be interesting and fit in there somewhere, doesn't it? JDB
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
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students

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Right now I recognize some of the anxiety that my students used to experience. When you see two avenues you want to follow. But they are so different....... they seem not at all connected...... Fear strikes you that if you follow one that the other will be forgotten about....... So throw the red flags down I can hear Mr. Twigsnapper say. Here goes

JDB you mentioned Beau Kitselman again and we haven't talked about him for awhile but we sure have talked about ancient technologies and now suddenly we are talking about ICBMs and computers! Its enough to make a mind pull itself in two . BUT SOMEWERE THERE IS A CONNECTION. So here I go ... throwing red flags right left and up in the air.

The year is 1957? What then was Mr. Kitselman doing? Notice that his daughter even mentions other research that we have mentioned in an area that could certainly be called extra sensory perception research. Another red flag! Computers, ancient sandskrit, Huna?, ICBMs? sheeze!

I think that one of the problems that other researchers of Townsend Brown have had is that they simply had no idea of the scope of this quiet man. And others around him are no slouches in the quiet qenius department either. MarkC
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

Mark Culpepper,
I believe we delved into HUNA and Beau Kitselman on here some time ago.
The name Nora Weeks came up, and Mr kitselman was apparently one of a group of experts brought into Huna on hawaii.
He was I believe president of the scientology set, but left as he didn't agree with Hubbard I think his mane is.
The Huna had a dowser with them who invented the aura meter, a device for detecting the aura around someone.
Actually that is fairly easy with ordinary dowsing rods, as with all dowsing, simply THINK of the subject you wish to connect with, your hands then will ( the dowsing device merely shows the connection) connect with what you are thinking of.
I consider everything is one, and everything is connected to everything else.
Heres a co incidence film clip about sanskrit, by a man from hawaii, a Dr Brown, not our dr Brown.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ush_ ... -tradition
Dailymotion, who thought of that name ?, the interviewer should not attempt to be an actor.
kevin
fibonacci is king
Elizabeth Helen Drake
Sr. Research Asst.
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keeping track

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Thankyou Mark for reminding me that there are some things that you just have to throw red flags down on but not necessarily pursue. It just gets to be too much sometimes and I know what that student you mentioned must feel like. Torn. Not enough of you for all of the directions. Not enough time in one life to follow all of the rabbit holes!

Beau Kitselman is realy a classic example of this. I am sure that he deserves his own biography and I hope that his family is seeing to that. I wish them all the best of luck on that.

What rings strongest in my brain is the fact that our Mr. Twigsnapper has told us that Kitselmans code name within the William Stephenson organization was " Sandcastle". So along with all of the other valued talents this man had .... he apparently was an honored intelligence operative.

And he was Townsend Browns best friend. And he made him laugh and thats all I really need to know about the quality of Beau Kitselmans character. Elizabeth
Mikado14
Mr. Nice Guy
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Re: You would be surprised

Post by Mikado14 »

James Barrett wrote:
So how does a person like that, with such black connections perhaps funnel his money to keep it available to him yet not traceable by others? The old follow the money gambit I suppose just would not be allowed to survive in his world I think. Its got to be carefully thought out, I should think? JDB
And you returned the chuckle! If you were here, I would tell you to have secret accounts. All it takes is creativity and a thin wire to walk on...<g>

Truth be known, I have two.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: no

Post by Mikado14 »

Mikado14 wrote:Mr. Griffin,

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that you met Dr. Brown on the one occasion. Did you ever meet him on any other occasions? You seem or appear to have a vast knowledge of him personnally as well as his feelings and the like and I was wondering what your source was?

Mikado

Griffin wrote:Mr. Mikado-

No.

Griffin
Is that "No" to not meeting on any other occasions or "No" you will not answer your source or is it "No" to both questions?

Mikado
Last edited by Mikado14 on Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: linking information

Post by Mikado14 »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:..........It was Odlum singlehandedly through his corporation Atlas ... that funded the program until the tide of opinion turned and other funding became available. I believe that it was Symington himself who said that without Odlums help we would not have had a space program.
Hmmmm....Atlas Corporation.....Atlas Launch Vehicle....

A connection?

Ya think?

Mikado

*** Elizabeth, I am short on time but I will be posting something under Random Ideas for you, watch for it.. (hint: you saw the light but I believe that testosterone made some blind)
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
James Barrett

sweeping crumbs.

Post by James Barrett »

Paul,

Notice anything that should maybe be noticed in this section of yours.

"5. Then comes the job of putting it all together with the proper materials, considering weight in the hope of getting a self propelled, self lifting and controlled, self powered “batteryâ€
Paul S.
Sr. Rabbit Chaser
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Location: Psych Ward

By All Means...

Post by Paul S. »

...continue:
James Barrett wrote: I would be willing to bet that from Jan 11th Gordon Gray had a very good idea of what was going on in the Bahnson/ Brown camp. JDB
And....???

Care to finish that thought?

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
James Barrett

rest of the thought

Post by James Barrett »

Paul,

Now thats an interesting concept. Your belief that I would have a whole thought there, unfinished! OK Here goes. Just an observation.

Knowing by now his history in intelligence work and his association with the likes of men like Sir William Stephenson and your own Mr. Twigsnapper, do you think that Dr. Brown would involve himself in an association with Bahnson ( and company) without thoroughly knowing who Bahnsons associates and connections were? Does it seem like Townsend Brown to let word of his work get out, unless he had some kind of control over the flow of it? And perhaps that the entire leak was .... intentional? I am not sure who was in control of whom right here. Are you?

Remember the phrase " Hello There?"

This whole thing sort of reminds me of a scene that Sam Elliot might involve himself in with any other classic opponent. Colts drawn they would circle each other, the proverbial draw. I don’t think that Dr. Brown would have gone into that situation unarmed. He would have already known about this Gray character and he would have known that Agnew would be just bursting with patriotic pride and concern and that eventually he would turn to Gray to show him what was going on.

Would you think that for every leak coming from Dr. Browns camp there would not be corresponding flows of information incoming to him? Things go in two directions remember. For everything that was going out from his camp, how much was incoming?

Dr. Brown probably knew better than anyone perhaps at that time what the phrase “Military Complexâ€
twigsnapper
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Astute observations

Post by twigsnapper »

I feel just a bit like the Vice President at the moment .... lets see ..... as long as you have mentioned it in print already ( thinking of that interview already posted from Gray) now I can say .......... Remember the little slip of a girl that he mentioned who happened to come to work for him at the Pentagon? Miss Beam, I believe. Miss Beam stayed with him during most of his career. Nothing went past her. Nothing. Remember the women.
And I can hear Dr. Brown saying ( with real concern) And how is your Mother doing now Miss Beam? twigsnapper
Mark Culpepper
The Dean
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:02 am

never went back

Post by Mark Culpepper »

This is the kind of comment that just makes me wonder how Linda ever managed to get any kind of a quality education at all. In this chapter you wrote .....
"Linda, who was not quite twelve years old, cooked a Thanksgiving turkey for herself and Josephine. And after the holiday, Linda never went back to the school she’d been attending in Umatilla. “Mother was having a really hard time recuperating,â€
Gewis
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Re: never went back

Post by Gewis »

Mark Culpepper wrote:This is the kind of comment that just makes me wonder how Linda ever managed to get any kind of a quality education at all.
In my experience, very little out of any given school day is actually spent learning. Sure, you'll miss knowing what assignments are due, but a school year can be condensed into probably three weeks of actual studying. Abraham Lincoln had about 50 weeks of formal education. Read Benjamin Franklin's autobiography, and see how much sit-down-and-be-taught education he had. Make no mistake, I learned a lot during my school years, but it was after school when I was ignoring my homework so I could read better stuff.

I don't think I'm a special case, either. I think anybody who wants to learn, can and will. Anybody who doesn't, won't, and you can look to the average literacy of current high school graduates as proof of that. School has little bearing on it either way.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research!" -Einstein
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