Chapter 55: Situation Normal

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
Mikado14
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Re: Film at 11

Post by Mikado14 »

Radomir wrote:
Paul S. wrote: I feel like the anchor man, holding his hand to his earpiece while a voice squawks in... "OK, I'm getting these details now... according to our sources in the field..."

In other words... good question, and I'm just now starting to find out there's more to the story than what I've been able to share so far.

So, film at 11... or 12, or whenever the crew arrives with the cans...

--PS
Paul: We see and sense you -- our anchorman -- valiently trying to live your Thurber quote, and want you to know that we appreciate both the humor and the seriousness of your situation. Good on ya for doing what you can with what ya got, when ya got it. We thank you...

R.

P.S. Y'all don't mind my speaking for everyone, do ya?
Ya got's my vote!

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Victoria Steele
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yeah, that!

Post by Victoria Steele »

Regarding that last question. I wondered what the heck you were talking about too but I figured maybe I had missed something. No! I was not alone. Whew! Thats a relief!

You got my vote too. I WANT YOU TO GO WITH WHAT YA GOT. Half the fun that all of us are having is watching you struggle through all of this! <g>!

So, when do we get the "back up " story? I just want to know the back up story to that sort of mysterious part is? When do we get that. film at 11? whenever, right. OK with me.

Just glad to know that there will be more too it because I wasn't making too much sense of what was there initially! Thought that it was me! Victoria
Paul S.
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Re: yeah, that!

Post by Paul S. »

Victoria Steele wrote:You got my vote too. I WANT YOU TO GO WITH WHAT YA GOT. Half the fun that all of us are having is watching you struggle through all of this! <g>!
Just so long as I can keep you all entertained....
So, when do we get the "back up " story? I just want to know the back up story to that sort of mysterious part is? When do we get that. film at 11? whenever, right. OK with me.
Did I say "11" ? Is that AM or PM? Or... maybe it's the 11th. Of... what month? Or... maybe it's 11 after... or 11 before... what hour...

Just ....Staaaaaay tuned!

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Gewis
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Post by Gewis »

Oh, I thought it was just that the Germans made Brown appear to be part of their own team, and a high-value target at that. That would make it so that when the Americans rolled around a second time, they'd be a little careful about what they killed. Many targets are worth more alive than dead. Scientists, to Campigne, would be in this category.
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research!" -Einstein
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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one thing for sure

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Gewis,

One thing I have learned while watching all of this information come and go. The Germans at the time were splintered into many groups with their own agendas. For most of them, (the ranking common German soldier) his biggest agenda was to simply stay alive long enough for it all to be over. T

Twigsnapper tells me that the communications system for the common soldiers was practically non existent. They had to go by rumor from one unit to the next. The soldiers south of Berlin knew that the Americans were coming, it was only a matter of time. And they were not sure where the Russians were they knew they were uncomfortably close.

Then you have another section. The random rolling courtsmartials. They were everywhere and apparently were just about the only thing that kept some of the rank and file soldiers still fighting, the fear they generated.. The commanders of the ordinary rank and file seemed to have no control over these rolling execution squads and complained bitterly about it to the central command but of course were ignored. I have gotten that information from Mr. Twigsnapper ... he says there is back up material for that information and I promised him that I would verify his words but right now I surely believe him.

Then , I was told, you have some scientists working for the Germans. Interesting situation. To be alive and able to work at the science you loved you basically had to join the Nazi party. Not too many choices in that.

The Russians wanted you, the Americans wanted you, and your soldier companions were determined to shoot you rather than see you fall into the wrong hands. Sadly, from what I have read hundreds and hundreds of scientists working on "special projects" were murdered by their own countrymen just as the war was ending. Most of the SS thinking on that was that they were in fact too valuable to be left alive.

Its a fascinating. terrible moment in history. And the more you learn, the more fascinating and terrible it becomes. Elizabeth
Gewis
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Re: one thing for sure

Post by Gewis »

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:Most of the SS thinking on that was that they were in fact too valuable to be left alive.
Absolutely.

However, if you happened to be a certain German commander with ties to the Caroline group, and you had a certain wounded American scientist who you wanted to keep safe (from enemy fire) when the rest of the Americans rolled around again, you just might make him look like he's a scientist who works for you.

That's what I meant, by way of explanation.

The total chaos and terror that must've confronted the Germans everywhere in that timeframe is pretty staggering. It was only made worse by the apparent disorganization of the Allied invasion. Paratroopers were wandering over the countryside, diffusing like a gas through what had previously been a "front." 82nd, 101st, Rangers, teams like Twigsnapper's, plus the roving court martials you just mentioned... who do you fight? Where?
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research!" -Einstein
twigsnapper
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diffusing

Post by twigsnapper »

Ah Gewis, you know your Airborne history. "Diffusing like gas" was an excellent phrase. twigsnapper
Victoria Steele
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Its confusing

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

I hope that you will be able to tell us more about what was actually happening here because I am confused.

I can sort of see what happened. The tank commander ( who was BOTH an SS officer AND a Caroline operative ... whew there seems to be a wild contradiction there. IS working to get this scientist he is hauling with him safely into the hands of the Allies. ( or at least into the hands of the Caroline Group) Why was this man so important? Where did he come from and how come an SS tank commander had custody of him?

And from what you said, the tank commander was not interested in " surrendering himself and had plans to go back to his men at wherever the front was at the time ( I have a feeling at that particular moment nobody was sure exactly where the front WAS)

And this thing about Dr. Brown just walking right up to the farmhouse. And nobody fired a shot at him then? The marksmen outside and the German soldier who opened the door must have known that he was to be allowed in. Sounds like everybody on both sides knew what was supposed to happen EXCEPT the kid from Arkansas. Talk about being a loose cannon!

So what happened after the first fire fight? Dr. Brown is "down". The guys in the farmhouse decide to try to hostage their way out of their situation at the moment. Maybe they were just holding Dr. Brown for their own safe passage out? But out where? Seems like. ( I looked at a map of the area I THINK all this action is taking place and there is just no place to go for these germans)

And the SS tank commander, like Radomir said, is pretty smart dude. What happened to him? Did he just leave then to return to his men? His " charge" has been killed so why would he hang around?

I am just confused because I know that it must all be there but I feel like we are sort of dealing with a deck of 51. "Stay tuned " he says! Victoria
twigsnapper
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high voltage

Post by twigsnapper »

Thats an interesting little piece Paul

http://www.themissingtimes.com/Boeing.html

And you might know that much of your problem in collecting information stems from the problems of security and classifications and beyond even those of the various military entities involved. As you can imagine for such a " beneath the radar" organization as the Caroline Group security problems also exist.

And compartmentalization works as well for them too. Its exceptionally rare to have a " bee". Most of the time its just flowers.

Sometimes though things leak out. Sometimes its intentional. In either case its up to the person on the other end to take advantage of those "leaks". And KNOWING a person and what he has said through his life usually provides you with a proper path.

One thing that Dr. Brown always stressed was " HIGH voltage" The man that he was so interested in obtaining from under the lip of the Nazis was so qualified. Unfortunately that was a disaster but that single man was just one of MANY. Do you think that the organization working with Dr. Brown would have stopped with the death of one man. Hardly. Do you think that they would have left any stone unturned anywhere to get the men together that Dr. Brown wanted and needed. If the man was willing to do what he did to get to them, do you think that his companions would do less? Just look as the individuals and then look at his words.

Now you have this statement from Hal Puthoff. Do you see something strange here?

"The only remaining possibility is that in our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage as Brown did, so there is a small possibility of non-linear effects at higher voltages," Puthoff wrote. "It's a judgment call."

Puthoff also said he was skeptical the B-2 employs electrogravitics propulsion but admitted it was quite possible that well-funded black-budget researchers might have pushed back the frontiers of physics in ways as yet unknown to mainstream science.

"As to the possibility of two independent physics communities, academic science and classified science, there are certainly precedents (stealth technology being one)," Puthoff responded. "As to whether this is the case with gravity research, it's hard to say. I have not seen direct evidence of this myself, and I have looked, but that doesn't mean much; it would depend on how close-held it was."

You can be sure. Closely held. twigsnapper
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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a question for ALL

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

During World War ll , If a military man were to use the expression that someone had come in "with all flags flying", what would that mean?

That expression was used in our direction to explain a situation and I am sure that its up to me to find out exactly what it means. And right now, I really don't have a clue.

I think that it has a specific meaning. But since I am not familiar with the phrase that much, to me it would simply mean that whoever was arriving was arriving with some amount of fanfare. Would I be right in assuming that? Somebody pretty important? I just thought I would ask my research helpers out there. Has anyone run into this expression? Am I on the right track? Elizabeth
Paul S.
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Re: high voltage

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:"The only remaining possibility is that in our various replication attempts none of us have gone as high in voltage as Brown did, so there is a small possibility of non-linear effects at higher voltages," Puthoff wrote. "It's a judgment call."
That sounds like a text-book definition of "hiding in plain sight" to me....

Even has the ring of somebody sticking their head out from behind the curtain and saying, "nope, nothing back here at all, you all go run along now..."

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
grinder
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or sorta

Post by grinder »

Paul,

Maybe a way of "hiding in plain sight" as you said . Or sorta a chickenshit way of covering your ass so that when the effect is discovered people can't point to you and say " But YOU SAID Browns work didn't pan out!"
OR maybe a little bit of both!!!!!

and to Elizabeth:

I really don't know what SPECIFICALLY that phrase " flying all flags" might have meant during World War ll.

Now To me ....... I think of boats in a harbor during a holiday ..... sort of a " flying all flags thing" where you put all the pennents out? to celebrate the Fourth of July. Something like that.

Is this a Navy expression then? As in " The Battleship arrived with all flags flying?"

Odd. How was it used can I ask? Did they have " battle flags" for different units? Could it mean several units showing up? Cerainly not keeping much quiet or hidden here. Just my impression. Good luck. grinder
grinder
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but how about THIS

Post by grinder »

I am not sure how I got here. I remembered what Mr. ORiley said about " nobody seeing him in a room full of flag officers? Ist that what he said? Look what I found Elizabeth, just by sheer luck! Does this help?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Officer

A Flag Officer is a naval officer of a high rank entitling him to fly a personal flag, especially on his flagship.

The generic title of "Flag Officer" is used in several modern navies to denote those who hold the rank of Rear Admiral (or its equivalent) and above, also called "Flag Ranks"; in some navies, this also includes the rank of Commodore. This corresponds to the generic term General Officer used by land (and often air) forces to describe all grades of Generals. Even though various armies allow them flags too, the term flag officer is only commonly used for naval officers.

A flag officer generally has an officer, called a Flag Lieutenant or a Flag Adjutant, attached to him as a personal adjutant (not unlike an aide-de-camp) regardless of any staff under his command. In the Royal Navy, this officer is often known as "Flags


So when this person told you someone came in with " All Flags Flying" do you suppose it is possible he is trying to tell you that these people were " Flags" . In otherwords .... representatives of various ADMIRALS OR Generals? I think I am right and I don't even know the context of your problem! It just FEELS right and Boy am I getting to a point where I pay attention to that feeling! grinder"
Paul S.
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Of couse it's confusing

Post by Paul S. »

what did Geoffrey Rush keep saying in "Shakespeare in Love" ? "It's a mystery...."
Victoria Steele wrote:I hope that you will be able to tell us more about what was actually happening here because I am confused.
All I can tell you for now, Victoria (and others) is: I'm a tad confused too, though I think the important parts of the story have been laid out for now and the remaining details will perhaps be resolved in a future draft.

These are all very good questions, and I'm making careful notes of them. But I also think that the resolution to your quandary lies in the next installments, rather than in the unwritten details of those that have already been posted.

Like my friend Philo T. Farnsworth III (son of the TeeVee inventor) used to say, "ya gotta face the front of the bus."

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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good answers!

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Thank you grinder for athat answer. I think that I am caught in a situation where more than one answer is going to be right, the old not the " either or"

This is what I have gotten from Yahoo answers so far ( Thanks all involved!)

"there was Perth, a beautiful white bone in her teeth...three battle flags streaming...smoke pouring...firing all the time...rapid salvoes...shells falling all around her...It was one of the finest sights I have ever seen."
(eyewitness, Battle of the Sunda Strait)

It is normal practice in many navies to hoist additional national or naval flags when going into battle as a lone flag, shot away, could be taken as a sign of surrender. "

And as variously faceted as my source for the question was. It wouldn't surprise me if ALL of these answers fit the mood of what was happening at that moment when this person came in with " all flags flying"

I sort of like the part about the " Perth" Must have been an early battleship... definitely with the idea of going into battle .... as also the meaning of more than one flag.

But grinders message is intriquing. What if these " Flags" were officers? representing Admirals) What kind of weight would they have maybe up against the commander Campaigne? Depends on the rank? Fascinating. Elizabeth

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