Peter Constantine Von Braun? I don't know the man but certainly there is a name that cojures up some thoughts of history.
I was speaking to a friend recently about experiences of the stranger sort and the memory of an experience that Bentfeather told me about once came into the conversation. I am not sure if he was trying to explain a vision he had experienced, or a dream, or maybe he was just trying to share the result on his mind of a "flight". I am not the one to name it but suddenly the richness of the name Constantine above brought back some memories of this conversation.
For those who never met Bentfeather he was a wonderful pilot who really loved " being up there" and maybe like a classic car buff he developed real passion for the planes that could get him airbone. Didn't much matter whether it was a biplane or an old MIG or a Bahamian Mallard seaplane with bullet holes in its tail .... or maybe something newer. I think he loved them all.
Bentfeather mentioned that in his "dream" that he had been along with Morgan and had been able to "pee on a wall that hasn't been there for 2000 years. Now I guess that might be a strictly masculine conquest but I found it an interesting statement. He went on to say that they found themselves walking amongst ancient soldiers who were spending the night before their next battle , most of them quietly sharpening thier weapons. He said that he could hear them talking in the darkness and that he was nearly overwhelmed by the scope of things and ( what was interesting ).... the smell of things. My friend and I agreed that there was something really special about a " dream" or even a "vision" that included the smell of sweat of an army along with the odors of leather and desert sand and the smoke from the fires.
Somehow we agreed that when we could also "smell things" we had to somehow pay more attention to what we were "seeing". Anyway Bentfeather said that Morgan had picked up a local blue green stone and had tossed it to him. Some of the men were rubbing their swords with that stone and Bentfeather said that Morgan had tossed one of those stones to him with a smile, saying : "Here... they believe that this will make you invisible to your enemy," ( Now in the years that have gone by since Bentfeather told me that story I have to confess. I don't know whether he said "invisible ... or invinceable ... so I include both words here)
And I have no idea why I found it important to tell you all of this. Perhaps Constantine has an interest in ancient history and the Gates of Persepolis. Linda
THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
-
- Resident Mystic
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:16 pm
-
- Resident Mystic
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:16 pm
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Just a little note. For some reason I am still unable to open my "Private Messages" file here on the forum. And I note that there are quite a few messages that I have not been able to read yet. Please be patient . I will try to get back to you tomorrow sometime, from another computer. Sorry for the delay. Linda
-
- Resident Mystic
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:16 pm
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
This message may not mean too much to many of you but is important to a few.
To the Corpsman from Twentynine who has just cleared my gate... Yea Navy! You know that you and yours are part of my family now and have taken with you one sweet old salty dog. Keep in touch and remember that you have a personal invitation to join the forum. We can always use the name "Pilot!" Thanks so much! Linda
To the Corpsman from Twentynine who has just cleared my gate... Yea Navy! You know that you and yours are part of my family now and have taken with you one sweet old salty dog. Keep in touch and remember that you have a personal invitation to join the forum. We can always use the name "Pilot!" Thanks so much! Linda
Blue-skying & 'dreams'
Hello Linda,
Your flight with Bentfeather into the beyond leads me to do some blue-skying of my own. Free association and dreamtime here, folks.
It’s interesting how connections are made. The name Constantine reminds you of Bentfeather and his “dream” experience featuring Morgan. This does partake of the non-rationality of dream consciousness, which can make wonderful connective sense in its own terms -- however seemingly strange. Dreams can be quite instructive. In what we consider the dream state, we may be having an out-of-body experience (OBE) with its dimensional shift. Time is quite fluid in that state.
The vividness of the sensory experiences in Bentfeather’s dream does promote the consideration that it may have been more than an “ordinary” imaginative dream. A “big dream” in Jungian terms at the very least. But let’s consider, as he might have, that it involved a dimensional/time shift. The reality of the ancient wall was mundanely emphasized. It sounds like those soldiers were using stones like Lapus Lazuli to whet their weapons. These stones were emphasized too -- in a tangible way, in Bentfeather’s “dream” experience -- with Morgan tossing one to him. Was this a dream or virtual stone, or were they learning how to deal with “apports” across dimensions and time? We can reference the strange story, that surfaced on the forum, of your father being rescued from captors by someone with a gun who, it seemed, had somehow time traveled to do it. Not only viewing across time, but acting across time. Another unproven and unprovable story, but one that resonates in some strange way with Bentfeather’s.
Lapus Lazuli is an anciently venerated stone, primarily mined in Afghanistan, which was thought to have interesting esoteric properties in addition to its incredible azure color and great beauty. Edgar Cayce mentions it. The meditatively repetitive motion of whetting the blades with stones having special properties may have opened a portal of sorts in which both past and future temporarily but timelessly shared a common space. A certain affinity and intentionality could also have drawn this dream team together.
While the name Constantine has a more Roman association, it resonates generally with the ancient world and its empires. Those “dream” soldiers could have been Greek. Persepolis was conquered and essentially destroyed by Alexander -- known as The Great, but more accurately in his time as The Invincible. His soldiers came to consider themselves Invincible too. Using special stones and other talismans to help achieve this confidence would fit.
As to invisible -- according to testing and testimonies, someone having an OBE can see others in the ordinary or another dimension/time space, but are usually themselves invisible and unseen. We could consider that the “dream” soldiers might have been sufficiently dimensionally shifted themselves so that they had some awareness of “gods” (Bentfeather and Morgan, accompanied by Twigsnapper’s laughter) moving among them. The soldiers’ natural awe and respect would have led them to accept this quietly and without any fuss or bother. There is the further consideration that the soldiers themselves, in their own ordinary frame of reference, may have temporarily become invisible to others not sharing their same deeply altered state of consciousness and field effect.
All grist for the mill, or sharpening for the whet-stone -- bemused musings and only possibilities to consider. What fun, Alice!
As ever,
Griffin
Your flight with Bentfeather into the beyond leads me to do some blue-skying of my own. Free association and dreamtime here, folks.
It’s interesting how connections are made. The name Constantine reminds you of Bentfeather and his “dream” experience featuring Morgan. This does partake of the non-rationality of dream consciousness, which can make wonderful connective sense in its own terms -- however seemingly strange. Dreams can be quite instructive. In what we consider the dream state, we may be having an out-of-body experience (OBE) with its dimensional shift. Time is quite fluid in that state.
The vividness of the sensory experiences in Bentfeather’s dream does promote the consideration that it may have been more than an “ordinary” imaginative dream. A “big dream” in Jungian terms at the very least. But let’s consider, as he might have, that it involved a dimensional/time shift. The reality of the ancient wall was mundanely emphasized. It sounds like those soldiers were using stones like Lapus Lazuli to whet their weapons. These stones were emphasized too -- in a tangible way, in Bentfeather’s “dream” experience -- with Morgan tossing one to him. Was this a dream or virtual stone, or were they learning how to deal with “apports” across dimensions and time? We can reference the strange story, that surfaced on the forum, of your father being rescued from captors by someone with a gun who, it seemed, had somehow time traveled to do it. Not only viewing across time, but acting across time. Another unproven and unprovable story, but one that resonates in some strange way with Bentfeather’s.
Lapus Lazuli is an anciently venerated stone, primarily mined in Afghanistan, which was thought to have interesting esoteric properties in addition to its incredible azure color and great beauty. Edgar Cayce mentions it. The meditatively repetitive motion of whetting the blades with stones having special properties may have opened a portal of sorts in which both past and future temporarily but timelessly shared a common space. A certain affinity and intentionality could also have drawn this dream team together.
While the name Constantine has a more Roman association, it resonates generally with the ancient world and its empires. Those “dream” soldiers could have been Greek. Persepolis was conquered and essentially destroyed by Alexander -- known as The Great, but more accurately in his time as The Invincible. His soldiers came to consider themselves Invincible too. Using special stones and other talismans to help achieve this confidence would fit.
As to invisible -- according to testing and testimonies, someone having an OBE can see others in the ordinary or another dimension/time space, but are usually themselves invisible and unseen. We could consider that the “dream” soldiers might have been sufficiently dimensionally shifted themselves so that they had some awareness of “gods” (Bentfeather and Morgan, accompanied by Twigsnapper’s laughter) moving among them. The soldiers’ natural awe and respect would have led them to accept this quietly and without any fuss or bother. There is the further consideration that the soldiers themselves, in their own ordinary frame of reference, may have temporarily become invisible to others not sharing their same deeply altered state of consciousness and field effect.
All grist for the mill, or sharpening for the whet-stone -- bemused musings and only possibilities to consider. What fun, Alice!
As ever,
Griffin
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Dear Linda and Griffin,
Free association and dreamtime ...
I think such experiences are quite usual for people who have an interest in intuiting the reverberating imprints that can be found at historic locations around the world .
I have had a small experience of this type, on a visit to the Yucatan while waking around the buildings at Chichen Itza, My husband and I were wondering what the particular paved avenues would have been used for, so we contemplated that idea and then had a strong sense of a procession for music and dance, of course we found out later that the location was in fact where the ancient musicians of the Maya would enter the complex.
These sorts of space/time imprints might explain the wonder that is found in places of pilgrimage . All types of mystical and religious references emphasize the importance of physical location for access into the attributes of a continuous mental and spiritual engagement.
It is also possible that other places may become repositories of collective trauma , or other sorts of very particular mind sets .
Buildings and locations to some extent seem to carry a unique personality, perhaps this is because they also still contain recognizable mental pathways into the non-physical attributes that are far more subtle, but which reach us at the level of personal identities.
For instance the currently permeating atmosphere on Wall Street which has become fairly toxic, so that bankers are looking for solace from other locations and alternative sources.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/us_ ... .Z2hSs0NUE
As Griffin points out the dimensional/time shift within a dream is often prelude to a "visionary" experience. For myself I have directly experienced "lucid dreaming " a curious phenomena which for me was a very accurate process and which gave me all types of a-priori or precognitive experiences for the apparent and unfolding future situation .
Having those sorts of experiences out of time and space, makes me quite sure that the basis of everyday life must not only be due to physically identified, changeable and destructed atoms but it must also be situated within a more long term, consciousness related and collective medium .
If one feels that consciousness is a collective and a library based oversight for the world of human perception both past , present and future , then that alternative viewpoint to the materialistic explanation will answer a lot of questions about how and why people engage for belief and what is the nature of magic.
Amalie
Free association and dreamtime ...
I think such experiences are quite usual for people who have an interest in intuiting the reverberating imprints that can be found at historic locations around the world .
I have had a small experience of this type, on a visit to the Yucatan while waking around the buildings at Chichen Itza, My husband and I were wondering what the particular paved avenues would have been used for, so we contemplated that idea and then had a strong sense of a procession for music and dance, of course we found out later that the location was in fact where the ancient musicians of the Maya would enter the complex.
These sorts of space/time imprints might explain the wonder that is found in places of pilgrimage . All types of mystical and religious references emphasize the importance of physical location for access into the attributes of a continuous mental and spiritual engagement.
It is also possible that other places may become repositories of collective trauma , or other sorts of very particular mind sets .
Buildings and locations to some extent seem to carry a unique personality, perhaps this is because they also still contain recognizable mental pathways into the non-physical attributes that are far more subtle, but which reach us at the level of personal identities.
For instance the currently permeating atmosphere on Wall Street which has become fairly toxic, so that bankers are looking for solace from other locations and alternative sources.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080922/us_ ... .Z2hSs0NUE
As Griffin points out the dimensional/time shift within a dream is often prelude to a "visionary" experience. For myself I have directly experienced "lucid dreaming " a curious phenomena which for me was a very accurate process and which gave me all types of a-priori or precognitive experiences for the apparent and unfolding future situation .
Having those sorts of experiences out of time and space, makes me quite sure that the basis of everyday life must not only be due to physically identified, changeable and destructed atoms but it must also be situated within a more long term, consciousness related and collective medium .
If one feels that consciousness is a collective and a library based oversight for the world of human perception both past , present and future , then that alternative viewpoint to the materialistic explanation will answer a lot of questions about how and why people engage for belief and what is the nature of magic.
Amalie
Guardians
A further comment on my musings about Bentfeather’s time-traveling “dream” experience.
In picturing Twigsnapper laughing if OBE apparitions of Bentfeather and Morgan were perhaps noticed by any of the soldiers and perceived as visiting “gods,” I didn’t mean to infer that I thought he would think it necessarily inappropriate. Although I can’t speak for him and am speaking for myself, it seems quite appropriate that the presence of Bentfeather and Morgan could and should be considered a good omen and morale booster by other warriors, given the status of these two as highly trained, skilled, and experienced warriors in what was apparently a noble cause. I’m sure they thought it was. The Greeks under Alexander’s command established the great Pan-Hellenic civilization and the enduring tradition of Hellenism which later helped influence the Renaissance through transmission of Socratic-Platonic-Aristotelian and Hermetic wisdom into Europe. Alexander and his generals were like the Socratic Guardians who loyally served the Philosopher Kings in The Republic. After all, Aristotle -- a transmitter, although modified, of the Socratic tradition -- was the tutor of Alexander, who broke down many divisive racial, national, and cultural barriers through his conquests and unifications. I feel that Morgan would have known of and encouraged this transmission and that it somehow connects with the tradition of the Caroline group as well.
In China, the spirits of great former generals like Quan Yu were often invoked by warriors wanting to emulate their skills and powerful, courageous characters. In Chinese martial arts schools, a statue or portrait of Quan Yu is often present and he is even deified in spirit as Quan Di. At the same time, though, I could picture Twigsnapper sharing a laugh with Bentfeather and Morgan if such a thing ever happened to them.
Amalie-
Yes -- well said. Some of these spots you refer to are natural and some are naturally enhanced. There are definitely incredible power spots in Yucatan, some deep underground. Often well guarded, in their own way.
As ever,
Griffin
In picturing Twigsnapper laughing if OBE apparitions of Bentfeather and Morgan were perhaps noticed by any of the soldiers and perceived as visiting “gods,” I didn’t mean to infer that I thought he would think it necessarily inappropriate. Although I can’t speak for him and am speaking for myself, it seems quite appropriate that the presence of Bentfeather and Morgan could and should be considered a good omen and morale booster by other warriors, given the status of these two as highly trained, skilled, and experienced warriors in what was apparently a noble cause. I’m sure they thought it was. The Greeks under Alexander’s command established the great Pan-Hellenic civilization and the enduring tradition of Hellenism which later helped influence the Renaissance through transmission of Socratic-Platonic-Aristotelian and Hermetic wisdom into Europe. Alexander and his generals were like the Socratic Guardians who loyally served the Philosopher Kings in The Republic. After all, Aristotle -- a transmitter, although modified, of the Socratic tradition -- was the tutor of Alexander, who broke down many divisive racial, national, and cultural barriers through his conquests and unifications. I feel that Morgan would have known of and encouraged this transmission and that it somehow connects with the tradition of the Caroline group as well.
In China, the spirits of great former generals like Quan Yu were often invoked by warriors wanting to emulate their skills and powerful, courageous characters. In Chinese martial arts schools, a statue or portrait of Quan Yu is often present and he is even deified in spirit as Quan Di. At the same time, though, I could picture Twigsnapper sharing a laugh with Bentfeather and Morgan if such a thing ever happened to them.
Amalie-
Yes -- well said. Some of these spots you refer to are natural and some are naturally enhanced. There are definitely incredible power spots in Yucatan, some deep underground. Often well guarded, in their own way.
As ever,
Griffin
Last edited by Griffin on Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Linda
Other material on the discussion site;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/p ... 9559334488
From the site;
I found the old document references in my system. The Hanz Von Braun issue gets interesting. If you do a search on Hanz Von Braun I think you may find parallels in some things mentioned. Comments such as Where I work, New Mexico, Propulsion. One of the posts in the site mention they know who his Grandfather is -Wernher Von Braun.Linda wrote:Arc.
May I ask where you are going with this thread? I know that you have a purpose in those questions. Can you share them with us? A cross over between Werner Von Brauns "kids" ( if he has any) and the story of Townsend Brown?
Other material on the discussion site;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/p ... 9559334488
From the site;
David
According to Vonbraun's other posts at the other physics site, his mother's name is Iris who was Wernher's daughter, one of two and I think the post said that Hanz von Braun was born in Ft. Bliss Texas so I did some checking and found that Wernher von Braun really did have a daughter named Iris who had a son at Ft. Bliss Texas named Hanz. VonBraun never admitted that he was but I think he is and so does others. Wernher's dog was named "javalin" and Hanz's e-mail is [email protected]. Hanz is now 30 which is the exact age of Iris's son Hanz. Then there is Hanz's employer who is a government contractor in Los Alomas New Mexico where he works in the research and devlopment of propulsion namely field propulsion which is why VonBraun is so pro-magneitc over unity in most of his posts. This is just what I've found out from other posts in other physics groups and have put all the data together. It fits perfectly.
So I will ask the question officially:
VonBraun; are you the grandson of Wernher von Braun?
Flavius
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the stars
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Continuing from above
The main listing page for the site;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/propulsion.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/messages.msnw
This last one would need attention from Mikado and Trickfox and those others here who have the kowledge, if they had time later on. A supposed high voltage generation scheme;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/o ... 5308363304
arc
The main listing page for the site;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/propulsion.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/messages.msnw
This last one would need attention from Mikado and Trickfox and those others here who have the kowledge, if they had time later on. A supposed high voltage generation scheme;
http://groups.msn.com/VonBraunPhysics/o ... 5308363304
arc
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the stars
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Arc,
Good morning. I forwarded your message to Mikado and he went to the site you posted. The first fault he noticed was friction within the 230 volt motor is ignored. Then, the voltage applied is taken directly off of the generated voltage. It's not that simple. In short, the efficiency of the electric motor is ignored as well as the power factor. As far as his computations of acceleration, he is correct. But nowhere within his dissertation does he mention how much current is produced. He has failed to take into account the resistance of the coils which again will reduce efficiency. He said he has seen this somewhere before. On another note: "True extraction of energy from the aether is being done with no moving parts. However, the extraction itself will produce movement."
Just as a side note, this is written as he told me. (I hope I didn't leave out anything important). Believe me, I don't understand a word of it, but it sure makes me sound smart![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Kim
Good morning. I forwarded your message to Mikado and he went to the site you posted. The first fault he noticed was friction within the 230 volt motor is ignored. Then, the voltage applied is taken directly off of the generated voltage. It's not that simple. In short, the efficiency of the electric motor is ignored as well as the power factor. As far as his computations of acceleration, he is correct. But nowhere within his dissertation does he mention how much current is produced. He has failed to take into account the resistance of the coils which again will reduce efficiency. He said he has seen this somewhere before. On another note: "True extraction of energy from the aether is being done with no moving parts. However, the extraction itself will produce movement."
Just as a side note, this is written as he told me. (I hope I didn't leave out anything important). Believe me, I don't understand a word of it, but it sure makes me sound smart
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Kim
What we take time to dream, do we dare make reality?
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Hello Kim
Thank you for the reply, and thank you for being a go-between, it is appreciated more than you know. It is also good to hear from you Kim as you have some interesting remarks.
I had been thinking similar things about the generator device, I have a bit of electrical and electronics background but no where near as much as Mikado. I did wonder about the current production capabilities of this thing, it just didn't "feel" right to me.
Could you ask Mikado if when he has some free time if he could visit the "other site" that he went to a few weeks ago, if possible thanks. His comment has raised some points I need to explore.
I hope you have a great day and hope your family is happy and healthy.
I will be away for the next four days.
Just before I leave, these may or may not be of interest, taken by me, poor quality as they are through a handheld camera that was held up to a telescope eyepiece, each shot about 20 to 30 seconds apart displayed here in the sequence they were taken, I cant say much at all as even these are not any "proof" of anything, but for me they do provide some evenings of thinking and pondering. The bright one in the middle is Jupiter with a couple of her moons showing. Who knows, perhaps high altitude cockroaches?.
1 2 3 4 5
cheers
arc
Thank you for the reply, and thank you for being a go-between, it is appreciated more than you know. It is also good to hear from you Kim as you have some interesting remarks.
I had been thinking similar things about the generator device, I have a bit of electrical and electronics background but no where near as much as Mikado. I did wonder about the current production capabilities of this thing, it just didn't "feel" right to me.
Could you ask Mikado if when he has some free time if he could visit the "other site" that he went to a few weeks ago, if possible thanks. His comment has raised some points I need to explore.
I hope you have a great day and hope your family is happy and healthy.
I will be away for the next four days.
Just before I leave, these may or may not be of interest, taken by me, poor quality as they are through a handheld camera that was held up to a telescope eyepiece, each shot about 20 to 30 seconds apart displayed here in the sequence they were taken, I cant say much at all as even these are not any "proof" of anything, but for me they do provide some evenings of thinking and pondering. The bright one in the middle is Jupiter with a couple of her moons showing. Who knows, perhaps high altitude cockroaches?.
1 2 3 4 5
cheers
arc
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the stars
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Other things that raise an eyebrow, how about underwater aeroplanes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6389127522
arc
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6389127522
arc
I do not believe our destiny lays beneath our feet... it lays beneath the stars
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
OK,
Well if this is were we get to think OUT of the BOX .Perhaps it is the right place to put up the next field game. I know you are sick of politics but this might perhaps link into the recent moon based dichotomies , so I am chancing that some will find it of interest.
Question:Is it possible to TALK to these people , I am all for discussion instead of warfare , but can anyone actually communicate here ,
they did blow the Buddhas at Bamiyan apart , for some inexplicable reason ....
http://tinyurl.com/4v5q6t
Seems as if Iran is being dragged in as well , so success or failure will all come down to a revision of the power sharing bases within the Islamic world .
Fine with me if they keep a lid on the aggression , stop repressing and maiming people and do not build any nuclear bombs .
Personally I think Islam will have a field day , nothing but blue skies ahead, once they come to terms with the dislocate cultural inheritance and take collective steps to revoke the steps back into the dark ages . No problems really for them,tons of oil money , tons of countries , loads of historic background and they will embrace and be good friends with Israel as well . Bush's legacy.
I have pasted this here because I do not know if UPI link will work , UPI some kind of sign-up news-line which I just joined .
BERLIN, Oct. 8 (UPI) -- Washington must start talking to Iran in order to win a key ally in the struggle to stabilize Afghanistan, according to officials in Europe."We have to think about a strategy change for Afghanistan," Peter Struck, Germany's former defense minister, said recently in Berlin. "We need a more regional approach."Such a regional approach should include Iran, said Niels Annen, a senior foreign policy expert with Germany's Social Democratic Party."Iran's government is not interested in a Taliban-led, Sunni Afghanistan," he told the foreign press corps Wednesday in Berlin. The U.S. unwillingness to engage diplomatically with Iran is counterproductive, he added."Speaking to Iran could have a very stabilizing effect on Afghanistan." Already, Iran is battling the effects of the flourishing narcotics business in neighboring Afghanistan: In Tehran, a gram of heroin these days is cheaper than milk.Experts agree that Pakistan is another key country for the success of the mission in Afghanistan.A bipartisan group of U.S. South Asia experts last week in a report called Pakistan the "greatest single challenge" to the next U.S. administration.Washington has sent almost $11 billion in aid to Pakistan since 2001, but Islamabad has failed to stop the insurgency from regrouping in the border region next to Afghanistan. Aid should be significantly reduced if Pakistan's military fails to fight terrorism, the group of experts said.Pakistanis recently elected a new government, and observers say Washington should grant it time to take control over the country's security sector -- namely the military spy agency ISI, which the West believes has secretly financed the Taliban to wage war in Afghanistan.Besides the need for a new approach toward the regional powers, many experts have called for a new strategy to win the war in Afghanistan.In the southern and eastern provinces, the Taliban are battling U.S. and NATO troops, with an increasing number of casualties on both sides. The previously stable northern provinces also have seen an upsurge in violence, mainly in the form of terrorist attacks, roadside bombings and smaller skirmishes.Add to that the corruption of the Karzai government, the inability to contain the drug business and a growing number of civilian casualties due to Western air raids, and one can understand why "ordinary Afghans have become much more critical" of the Western military mission, Annen said.Annen recently traveled to Afghanistan with his party colleague, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, and visited the city of Kandahar in the volatile south, where Dutch troops are in the lead."In just two days, six soldiers got injured," he said.Germany in the past was asked to also send troops to the southern provinces, but Berlin denied those requests. Annen said NATO forces from different nations should coordinate and combine reconstruction efforts, but added that a German military contribution in Afghanistan's south isn't realistic at the moment."We have enough difficulties to convince our people of the mission as it presents itself right now," he said.This unwillingness to divert troops south has been criticized, even at home."If you want to take part in the decision-making for reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan, you also have to show a military readiness for action," Henning Riecke, a trans-Atlantic expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations, a Berlin-based think tank, said in a statement.In Germany, the real issue is the public. Some three out of four Germans oppose the country's presence in Afghanistan, according to the latest polls. German lawmakers nevertheless are expected to give the green light next week to prolonging German troops' presence by another 14 months. Germany also decided to send in an additional 1,000 troops because of next year's general elections in Afghanistan, boosting the total number of German troops in the country to 4,500.Yet it is crucial that the government successfully communicates the importance of the mission to ordinary Germans, experts say. So far, none of the major parties in Germany has advocated pulling out of Afghanistan, "but a Parliament can't decide against the will of its own people forever," Annen said.
Well if this is were we get to think OUT of the BOX .Perhaps it is the right place to put up the next field game. I know you are sick of politics but this might perhaps link into the recent moon based dichotomies , so I am chancing that some will find it of interest.
Question:Is it possible to TALK to these people , I am all for discussion instead of warfare , but can anyone actually communicate here ,
they did blow the Buddhas at Bamiyan apart , for some inexplicable reason ....
http://tinyurl.com/4v5q6t
Seems as if Iran is being dragged in as well , so success or failure will all come down to a revision of the power sharing bases within the Islamic world .
Fine with me if they keep a lid on the aggression , stop repressing and maiming people and do not build any nuclear bombs .
Personally I think Islam will have a field day , nothing but blue skies ahead, once they come to terms with the dislocate cultural inheritance and take collective steps to revoke the steps back into the dark ages . No problems really for them,tons of oil money , tons of countries , loads of historic background and they will embrace and be good friends with Israel as well . Bush's legacy.
I have pasted this here because I do not know if UPI link will work , UPI some kind of sign-up news-line which I just joined .
BERLIN, Oct. 8 (UPI) -- Washington must start talking to Iran in order to win a key ally in the struggle to stabilize Afghanistan, according to officials in Europe."We have to think about a strategy change for Afghanistan," Peter Struck, Germany's former defense minister, said recently in Berlin. "We need a more regional approach."Such a regional approach should include Iran, said Niels Annen, a senior foreign policy expert with Germany's Social Democratic Party."Iran's government is not interested in a Taliban-led, Sunni Afghanistan," he told the foreign press corps Wednesday in Berlin. The U.S. unwillingness to engage diplomatically with Iran is counterproductive, he added."Speaking to Iran could have a very stabilizing effect on Afghanistan." Already, Iran is battling the effects of the flourishing narcotics business in neighboring Afghanistan: In Tehran, a gram of heroin these days is cheaper than milk.Experts agree that Pakistan is another key country for the success of the mission in Afghanistan.A bipartisan group of U.S. South Asia experts last week in a report called Pakistan the "greatest single challenge" to the next U.S. administration.Washington has sent almost $11 billion in aid to Pakistan since 2001, but Islamabad has failed to stop the insurgency from regrouping in the border region next to Afghanistan. Aid should be significantly reduced if Pakistan's military fails to fight terrorism, the group of experts said.Pakistanis recently elected a new government, and observers say Washington should grant it time to take control over the country's security sector -- namely the military spy agency ISI, which the West believes has secretly financed the Taliban to wage war in Afghanistan.Besides the need for a new approach toward the regional powers, many experts have called for a new strategy to win the war in Afghanistan.In the southern and eastern provinces, the Taliban are battling U.S. and NATO troops, with an increasing number of casualties on both sides. The previously stable northern provinces also have seen an upsurge in violence, mainly in the form of terrorist attacks, roadside bombings and smaller skirmishes.Add to that the corruption of the Karzai government, the inability to contain the drug business and a growing number of civilian casualties due to Western air raids, and one can understand why "ordinary Afghans have become much more critical" of the Western military mission, Annen said.Annen recently traveled to Afghanistan with his party colleague, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, and visited the city of Kandahar in the volatile south, where Dutch troops are in the lead."In just two days, six soldiers got injured," he said.Germany in the past was asked to also send troops to the southern provinces, but Berlin denied those requests. Annen said NATO forces from different nations should coordinate and combine reconstruction efforts, but added that a German military contribution in Afghanistan's south isn't realistic at the moment."We have enough difficulties to convince our people of the mission as it presents itself right now," he said.This unwillingness to divert troops south has been criticized, even at home."If you want to take part in the decision-making for reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan, you also have to show a military readiness for action," Henning Riecke, a trans-Atlantic expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations, a Berlin-based think tank, said in a statement.In Germany, the real issue is the public. Some three out of four Germans oppose the country's presence in Afghanistan, according to the latest polls. German lawmakers nevertheless are expected to give the green light next week to prolonging German troops' presence by another 14 months. Germany also decided to send in an additional 1,000 troops because of next year's general elections in Afghanistan, boosting the total number of German troops in the country to 4,500.Yet it is crucial that the government successfully communicates the importance of the mission to ordinary Germans, experts say. So far, none of the major parties in Germany has advocated pulling out of Afghanistan, "but a Parliament can't decide against the will of its own people forever," Annen said.
Communication
Amalie-
An interesting link, and these phrases are particularly pertinent:
QUOTE:
"That is one of the key long-term solutions in Afghanistan, just as it has been in Iraq," Gates told reporters Monday. "Part of the solution is reconciliation with people who are willing to work with the Afghan government going forward."
Gen. David Petraeus, who will become responsible for U.S. military operations in Afghanistan as head of U.S. Central Command on Oct. 31, agreed.
"I do think you have to talk to enemies," Petraeus said Wednesday at an appearance at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, when asked about potential dialogue with the Taliban.
"You've got to set things up. You've got to know who you're talking to. You've got to have your objectives straight," he said. "But I mean, what we did do in Iraq ultimately was sit down with some of those that were shooting at us. What we tried to do was identify those who might be reconcilable."
COMMENT:
If Barack Obama said this -- and he essentially has -- he would be attacked by McCain and company -- and he has been.
We should have stabilized Afghanistan and its democracy and educational system -- made it a model of what really enlightened Islam may be in the modern age. Whatever one may think of President Bush and his policies otherwise, Iraq will be known to history as Bush's Blunder -- with the sub-title: Frank's Folly and Rumsfeld's Regret. It's true that hindsight can be 20/20 vision, but we shouldn't have needed this perspective to have seen the obvious. We had much more than enough to chew with Afghanistan. The initial military victory in Iraq was a given, but there were too many poison pills to swallow (like the large surviving force of the hyper-fanatic Fedayeen Saddam and former Ba’athists). History is replete with examples of overstepping bounds through arrogance (hubris to the Greeks). With the present economic meltdown and recession in place, how can we continue to spend trillions in Iraq indefinitely -- plus all the loss and shattering of lives? We periodically kill a few insurgents in Iraq, while their numbers grow with no end in sight. Now a second front is expanding in Afghanistan. General Patton would have said this was no way to win a war, imo.
Griffin
An interesting link, and these phrases are particularly pertinent:
QUOTE:
"That is one of the key long-term solutions in Afghanistan, just as it has been in Iraq," Gates told reporters Monday. "Part of the solution is reconciliation with people who are willing to work with the Afghan government going forward."
Gen. David Petraeus, who will become responsible for U.S. military operations in Afghanistan as head of U.S. Central Command on Oct. 31, agreed.
"I do think you have to talk to enemies," Petraeus said Wednesday at an appearance at the Heritage Foundation in Washington, when asked about potential dialogue with the Taliban.
"You've got to set things up. You've got to know who you're talking to. You've got to have your objectives straight," he said. "But I mean, what we did do in Iraq ultimately was sit down with some of those that were shooting at us. What we tried to do was identify those who might be reconcilable."
COMMENT:
If Barack Obama said this -- and he essentially has -- he would be attacked by McCain and company -- and he has been.
We should have stabilized Afghanistan and its democracy and educational system -- made it a model of what really enlightened Islam may be in the modern age. Whatever one may think of President Bush and his policies otherwise, Iraq will be known to history as Bush's Blunder -- with the sub-title: Frank's Folly and Rumsfeld's Regret. It's true that hindsight can be 20/20 vision, but we shouldn't have needed this perspective to have seen the obvious. We had much more than enough to chew with Afghanistan. The initial military victory in Iraq was a given, but there were too many poison pills to swallow (like the large surviving force of the hyper-fanatic Fedayeen Saddam and former Ba’athists). History is replete with examples of overstepping bounds through arrogance (hubris to the Greeks). With the present economic meltdown and recession in place, how can we continue to spend trillions in Iraq indefinitely -- plus all the loss and shattering of lives? We periodically kill a few insurgents in Iraq, while their numbers grow with no end in sight. Now a second front is expanding in Afghanistan. General Patton would have said this was no way to win a war, imo.
Griffin
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Dear Griffin ,
Is this addressing the underlying problem, some other lines of approach would be the educational and cultural ones .
http://tinyurl.com/4jp3b7
Strange how decadence fuels fanaticism .
Legalizing the Afghani drug production for the global medical industry would help a lot , but western pharmaceuticals do not wish to give the lucrative supply lines over to the disenfranchised Afghani farmers.
The Bolivian president was very outspoken about national rights to coca production, because those people traditionally chew coca leaves for energy and stamina.
I just read a letter in the New Yorker about the elephant Babar, who might be considered a fascist by some because Celestville was obviously a fascist state and Zephyr's home town was run by a military junta .
Amalie
Is this addressing the underlying problem, some other lines of approach would be the educational and cultural ones .
http://tinyurl.com/4jp3b7
Strange how decadence fuels fanaticism .
Legalizing the Afghani drug production for the global medical industry would help a lot , but western pharmaceuticals do not wish to give the lucrative supply lines over to the disenfranchised Afghani farmers.
The Bolivian president was very outspoken about national rights to coca production, because those people traditionally chew coca leaves for energy and stamina.
I just read a letter in the New Yorker about the elephant Babar, who might be considered a fascist by some because Celestville was obviously a fascist state and Zephyr's home town was run by a military junta .
Amalie
Re: THINKING OUTSIDE of the BOX
Griffin ,
I should correct , edit button is not here , perhaps the outside the box thoughts will need no edits...
In this case not so much a question of "decadence" fueling fanaticism, which might even seem as a moral argument ,
but more perhaps of "economic exclusion" fueling fanaticism .
Because of there being no legal pathways for the raw drugs exports, into medical applications, there is no legal income from this commodity .
The large pharmaceutical companies might lose revenues from the establishment of a proper legalized market for Afghan opium productions , but they might well make up that difference , once the Afghani economy improves and people are more able to address the health needs . Afghani's need loads of hospitals as well as everything else .
Amalie
I should correct , edit button is not here , perhaps the outside the box thoughts will need no edits...
In this case not so much a question of "decadence" fueling fanaticism, which might even seem as a moral argument ,
but more perhaps of "economic exclusion" fueling fanaticism .
Because of there being no legal pathways for the raw drugs exports, into medical applications, there is no legal income from this commodity .
The large pharmaceutical companies might lose revenues from the establishment of a proper legalized market for Afghan opium productions , but they might well make up that difference , once the Afghani economy improves and people are more able to address the health needs . Afghani's need loads of hospitals as well as everything else .
Amalie