Disinformation

A place to engage extended discussions of things that come up on the ttbrown.com website. Anything goes here, as long as it's somehow pertinent to the subject(s) at hand.
twigsnapper
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Disinformation

Post by twigsnapper »

I have noticed with some interest that the word " disinformation" has been used sometimes in a sort of negative way, as if it was the bad guy but in actuality, if it were not for proper "disinformation" many proper causes would be lost forever.

Here is an example I happen to know a little about. For those of you who are historians and maybe for Mark C this will just serve as a refresher course.

Winston Churchill is quoted saying in October of 1943. " Truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies".

Now, thats a pretty powerful statement actually.

During the D day invasion plans therefore had a counterpart in deception for everything that was happening in truth. Paul, I am sure that you have been taking notes here. In fact, the entire umbrella deception plan was called " Bodyguard". It was split into others of course that had specific agendas. And you know that William Stephenson was the master of most of this. There were fake radio signals, fake divisions .... The Germans were even spoonfed information from their own agents in England .... sources they trusted who had been painstakingly taken over by British counter-intelligence. Every single freestanding German transmitting agent had been captured and was under SOE control. There was an operation named "Fortitude" that basically fed the Germans exactly what the English wanted them to hear. Of course, the Germans were to never know that they had been compromised. All was well in their world they believed.

Keeping the real secrets then became uppermost. And security around the "Truth" .... lovely maiden that she was ..... became critical.

Can you all see similarities? History repeats itself. Twigsnapper
Paul S.
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Truth... or "Truthiness" ?

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:Winston Churchill is quoted saying in October of 1943. " Truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies".
Mr. T,

That certainly is a powerful statement. But -- at the risk of sounding once again like a selfish ingrate because I don't get all of my questions answered when and how I want them answered -- I wonder: is not also possible to surround the truth with... a bodyguard of truth?

Your post make me wonder if that isn't a hidden danger in what we're doing. I mean, I labor greatly to present only "facts" in this story, and/or to be as clear as I can about what is not fact or what cannot be known or learned at this time. This creates a veil of "truth" (or, as Stephen Colbert calls it, "truthiness").

So I wonder, if, in the end, we will not have a volume of "truth,' that still some how manages to 'attend' the deeper truth of this story just as well as a "bodyguard of lies."

I am not saying that is what's happening; to the contrary, it seems that the more I bore through the material and hammer it into some kind of narrative shape, the more valuable information is coming to light and the closer we seem to be getting to the "truth." I do believe the process is working. Like they say at AA, "keep coming back, it works if you work it."

Indeed, there seems to be a lot of kismet at work over the past 9 months, since I started writing and publishing online. Valuable information seems to come to light just as I seem to need it. Case in point, that newspaper article from 1936 that showed up just in time to be included in Chapter 39.

But only time, and probably a good six more months of word-hammering, will tell if we wind up with a book that reveals, or further conceals, the REAL hidden story embodied in the life of Townsend Brown.

I mean, I think we have more than a pretty good clue what that truth is, and I have named it elsewhere here; but convincing myself of that, and then finding the means to at least present the ideas effectively (if not altogether persuasively), well, I guess that is why writing is often referred to as a "craft."

But I do think it's reasonable in the meantime to point out that a "bodyguard of lies" is not the only way to keep things hidden.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
twigsnapper
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bodyguard of truth

Post by twigsnapper »

Actually, I find your thread of thought appealing.

So what you are saying is .......... that lady truth can can be sucessfully surrounded and also protected by truth itelf as her bodyguard, as opposed to what Churchill said about lies having to do the job.

I would prefer it that way. That would be the perfect world.

And perhaps the age is coming where that might just work. In the forties and fifties it was a desperate age for most of the world. You can tell the truth all you want to someone who has no regard for you or your life or the lives of your children. Do you think that telling the absolute truth to a man like Hitler would have been a workable agenda?

But perhaps people have changed?

The Indians learned something interesting about dealing with the American government. An elder once told me, regarding broken treaties and their pleas in Washington for "Justice". He said "You can not petition for fairness to men who have no conscience."

And I would say too that you can not tell the absolute truth to those who do not know who they are yet and are an unknown quality in the equation. If conscience is a word that applies , then I guess we can use it.

On the floor of the CIA is the emblem that simply says " Know the Truth and the truth shall set you free." Problem with most situations now is .... If you know the truth ..... now what? Are you wise enough to act responsibly with it? Do you have the fibre it would take to make the right choices?

Anyway, thats what goes through the minds of people who know secrets ..... How to let those secrets out? How to keep them protected?

And Paul, you might have noticed that very early on you were told that you would not have to deal with lies from our end of the fence. (Which is quite a bit different than the rest of us have to deal with, where it is generally assumed that we are being told liesor at least agenda laden halftruths)

Of course its up to you to believe us or not. That is always your choice. But in that choice you have had that advantage. You might not have been told everything but intentional disinformation has never been shoveled in your direction. So maybe in your case you can build that protective barrier with the truths that you find in your work. If you work hard enough just maybe you will be able to set a new standard for the future. Perhaps it can be done this time around. More power to you if you can get that accomplished. Twigsnapper
grinder
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hidden truths

Post by grinder »

I am not sure that I know what you guys are talking about here. "Truths? Like secrets being uncovered? As in "Tell me the TRUTH about what Dr. Brown was doin?"

Are we talking about national security stuff? If so, I don't want my neighbors knowing that stuff! I don't care if they are true blue loyal citizens of the United States, they can't even properly take care of thier dog much less secrets that might effect every living one of us.

I don't even want to know stuff like that. I don't want the responsibility and I don't think I should have it either, that "truth".

In fact , I am not even sure I even KNOW anybody that I would trust with information say ..... of a new propulsion system or maybe even teleportation.

Which is by the way what you guys have been talking about here, right.?I've been reading up on this quantum communications idea and at the base of it (they say years and years away) is some sort of teleportation.

Should the guy with the Rottweiler have that information? I don't think so!
Do I want to know that sort of thing before everybody in the whole world knows it? NO! Like Paul said a long time ago, "build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door, then bust the door down and steal it and everything else you might have."

No. I would prefer that there are people out there dedicated enough to stand between me and that thank you very much. I am a brave soul, but I'm not THAT brave. grinder
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Grinder,

Your post reminded of one of my favorite books, "The Stars My Destination," by Alfred Bester. It concerns a fellow by the name of Gully Foyle who has reached the pinnacle of his completely undistinguished life as a spaceman with no expectations of advancement.

At this time, mankind has established all of the planets in the solar system, and a form of transportation controlled by will alone (location, elevation, situation), called jaunting has been discovered. Unfortunately, the limit of distance is about 1,000 miles. This discovery has transformed civilization, and as a result, the outer satellites and Earth have entered a brutal war.

When the book opens, Gully has been stranded alone on a derelict spaceship having been attacked by the outer satellites. He is able to barely survive, and one day he sees another ship, which ignores his flares, and ends up passing him by. This event inspires him to escape the ship back to Earth in a self-enlightning journey of revenge to pursue the captain of the ship and destroy him.

In the process, he comes to possess an incredibly powerful weapon developed by Earth, and ends up with agents from both sides in hot pursuit of him. In the end, it turns out that he is in possesion of information far more powerful than imagined - information that would change the course of mankind forever.

Anyhow, the point of this book report is the message - that we are a member of society first, and an individual second. We are not lemmings - those who have knowledge must teach those who do not, and those who can lead, must for those who cannot. The men and women that we talk about in these forums were and are compelled - driven to follow their path - they must move forward, because that is their nature, without worrying that any will follow.

Mankind is a funny creature - we have the ability for such noble greatness, but we choose rags instead. I believe with a common vision, mankind will come together to accomplish unimaginable things, and that each man and woman contains within their heart the potential of greatness. Reality is perhaps not so idealistically inclined, but methinks you sell yourself short.

Andrew
grinder
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maybe so

Post by grinder »

Maybe you are right. Maybe I do sell myself short and maybe I should step forward more.

I am curious though what YOU would do if given that sort of power Gully discovers. Actually, point by point , lets treat this seriously!

Anybody else out there too, how would you manage that kind of knowledge and power? Andrew mentions the need for "common vision", but how does that develop? How does one person inspire that "common vision?" And once you got information like Gullys, do you share what you know?

You say humanity choses "rags" instead of other choices. I can see that. But do all of us have to "reach for the stars" in a material (or even spacial way?)

I'll have to find that book. So is "jaunting" like time traveling? So Andy, you've been studying Dr. Browns work for a long time now. I know that I have been reading your things on the Townsend Brown site for a long, long time. Do you think its possible that he developed some way of "jaunting" himself? In one of Pauls chapters Dr. Brown says to Morgan that such a thing is possible. So, what do you think Andy? grinder
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Grinder,

(In the light of day, this post is far too philosophical, so I had to edit it.)

Well, what would I do if I discovered that kind of knowledge and power? I'd continue walking the same path I always have. I share a vision for the future, which if I don't reach, someone else will pick up where I leave off, but the vision is inevitable.

Mankind is inherently curious by nature. We have always been explorers, but we seem to have reached a plateau, and here we are just looking out at the stars and twiddling our thumbs. That's a pretty big playground, but as you asked, "do all of us have to reach for the stars?" No, but there will always be some that will.

As far as teleportation and time-travel go, in my limited scientific knowledge I see no reason to discount the possibility. Over time, people have spent huge amounts of time, energy, and money on both of those technologies - we are hard-wired to be curious.

Such is the nature of late-night, armchair philosophy. :roll:

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Paul S.
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Circle the Wagons

Post by Paul S. »

twigsnapper wrote:Paul, you might have noticed that very early on you were told that you would not have to deal with lies from our end of the fence. (Which is quite a bit different than the rest of us have to deal with, where it is generally assumed that we are being told lies or at least agenda laden half-truths)
Yes, I have noticed that, of course.
Of course its up to you to believe us or not. That is always your choice. But in that choice you have had that advantage. You might not have been told everything but intentional disinformation has never been shoveled in your direction. So maybe in your case you can build that protective barrier with the truths that you find in your work.
That's what I went to bed thinking about last night, my thoughts somehow colored by your reference to certain Indians. That, for some reason, got me to thinking about "circling the wagons."

And here's what I've come up with this morning: there's a big difference between circling the wagons with the truth and circling them with lies.

When you surround the truth with lies, the intent is to reflect the light outward, so that nobody will be able to see what might be hidden within in. Blind 'em with the lies, so to speak.

But if you circle with truth with truth, then the result should be to project the light inward, so that whoever is looking and cares to, can see the golden nuggets hidden within.

I'm working on the latter model; I don't think any of us have much use for the former.

The other messages I'll get to shortly. It's Thursday, and there's some work to do.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
grinder
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projecting the light inward

Post by grinder »

Hey Paul,

I hope that you print that last message from yourself and keep it safe somewhere because it strikes me as pretty damned significant. Your vision ..... to circle the truth with truth ..... which would "Project the light inward so that anyone who is looking and cares to can see the golden nuggets hidden within."

That strikes me as a different concept. A different reason for "circling the wagons" A unique and new look . But one that is filled with understanding. Not all of us will want to even look. But you take that into account. "Project the light inward" so that "ANYONE WHO IS LOOKING AND CARES TO SEE" will see the golden nuggests hidden within.

Pretty damned special Paul. I am completely impressed. grinder
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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baby terns

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Paul,

I am impressed (along with grinder) over your circle the wagons idea. I agree with him that you should post it where you can see it easily.

But I have my moments. Its like Trickfox saying that he believes occasionally the little computer glitches he gets are "hiccups" from the future ..... some way that he himself is "self editing". Now Pauls reaction was basically "I dunno, thats sort of a stretch for me" and I have to smile because isn't that what all this been about?

Trickfox, not to worry for your sanity. Either that or you must know that you are not alone with your hunch. I have the feeling that somehow I have been "self edited" consistently.

And something about that process makes me pause at the thought of having light by the truth reflected inward on the "nuggets" that are the "treasure" kept safe. Its a great concept. Show the world that will see what is there. It is time perhaps for that to happen. Still ....... I worry.

They say that you can learn from nature if you just watch.

This morning on the usual chatty ridiculous news show here in California there was a story of hundreds of bodies of baby terns washing up on the beach. Officials had declared that this was not caused by the seasonal poisoning that sometimes happens naturally to seabirds along the coast. These little terns were too young they said.

And then I remembered these same newscasters had broadcast a story a couple of weeks ago about the strange and wondrous event that had occurred off coast. Someone had discovered an anchored barge that had been left with just enough sand on it to provide a nesting ground so thousands of terns had laid their eggs on the barge. "Never seen before" was the announcement. "Rare sight" was the other comment.

Now, of course, the barge is totally empty. All of the terns are gone. A few of them have washed up on shore, the newscasters now dismissing the incident with the comment that "boats had been seen near the barge" the evening before.

So ....... can you understand the concern? Do you shine the light inward? Really? Elizabeth
grinder
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chasing visions of the future

Post by grinder »

Andrew,

I am still on this kick of wanting to know what various people might do with something powerful like Gulleys discovery. Your answer to my question was " I'd continue working toward the same thing that I always have" BUT you still didn't answer what that was exactly, other than to say that you knew that it (the vision?) was "inevitable"

You got me really interested here to actually hear what your vision is and why you feel that it is inevitable? Cool discussion, hope you have time to respond.

And I agree with you about this book of Pauls, there is something really compelling about this whole subject and about the book itself. grinder
Victoria Steele
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soemething really chilling

Post by Victoria Steele »

Elizabeth,

I just wanted you to know that I understood perfectly your little story about the "baby terns". I have heard the news reports. I find it chilling actually. So this is the possibility of revealing something precious like that, to creatures who have no understanding of the value of that treasure. It makes me want to scream. It makes me want to join up with some sort of "protection agency" but I know thats not really the ultimate answer. Its the guys in the boats that need to change and the question still is..... will they ever?

So if there was a secret? a BIG secret . I can see the point that you are making. The only true safety for those terns was that nobody knew that they were there. Maybe thats what we are dealing with here too? Maybe the information of communication with another intelligence was too much for the world right after World War ll. Maybe its not even right for this time?

So, do you announce the location of the barge? And hope that people will realize that its a wonder and a great gift of nature? Or do you continue to protect it by not letting people even see that it is there? A tough question. Thanks Elizabeth for the thoughtful post. Victoria
Trickfox
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Time to chime

Post by Trickfox »

Ok everyone, Its my turn to tell you a true story which happened to me.

Several years ago I worked with a brilliant person who had the type of knowledge Grinder is talking about in this section. I knew he had the knowledge because I caught glimpses of some of those red rubber stamped papers. I did not see exactly what was on the papers but I knew they were kept in locked concrete vaults inside a DOD approved contactor facility.

I was oh so very curious about what was written on those papers that was so important that only "cleared personnel could read" and even then. -they had to understand the technology or else they had no need to know anyhow. I was this person's closest assistant yet I did not have the understanding of the technology, therefore I did not have the "need to know".

One day I had mustered up enough courage to dare and ask my mentor what was was on those red stamped document half-way hoping he would tell me just a tiny bit about the subject matter. He looked at me with a dissapointing look and said, "Raymond, I would tell you about it but I'm warning you that you would probably want me to stop talking about it immediatly once you find out how dangerous it is".

Of course I laughed and said "No Way", "I can handle it". He argued with me that some things are so important and controversial that it makes a person want to "cover their own ears in fear" when the truth comes out.

Years went by before my mentor had enough trust in me to share a tiny bit of this knowledge. The truth is I had been around him so long and I had learned too much about things, -to the point where I was beginning to figure it out all by myself.

Eventually I started to ask specific questions that were so detailed that my friend either had to admit to the truth of the subject matter or tell me to "shut up" and "stop asking questions".

I fully expected him to dispute me for even asking such detailed questions, but instead he had developed enough respect for me that he began answering the truth with details which were so frightening that I SWEAR TO ALL OF YOU, I COVERED MY OWN EARS at that very moment and I yelled for him to stop talking.

I had myself finally realized the very point he was trying to make years earlier. To this day I am unable to talk about such things with anyone else and unfortunately, now I have passed the point of no return. Now I regret even knowing about a few of these details.

Even though I still don't know or understand the rest, like Grinder is saying here, "I don't want to know", and I now realize that there is much wisdom in remaining ignorant of the details about certain secret knowledge.

I wonder if anyone else understands how I feel about this. I suspect Mr. Twigsnapper certainly does, but let me me absolutely clear about the fact that sometimes ignorance is pure bliss.

The second half of the original post I made here has been moved to:
viewtopic.php?p=1801#1801
As per Paul's request
(it was too technical I guess)

Trickfox
Last edited by Trickfox on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gabriel
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Truth

Post by Gabriel »

I think that in dealing with truths sometimes disinformation is used to get the truth out for those poeple who know it and are able to cope with it. For the rest it is a protection for those who speak the truth daily yet others who normally would not understand but if they did they might use that truth against those who are speaking it. There are things that if they were made known people would destroy themselves who are normally living in ignorance. The mind is ordered to the truth but if the mind is blinded by one's own actions to it then sometimes the truth will be come one's own and used against itself. I mean Stevenson knew about cities in England that were going to be bombed by the German's and were but he could not warn them for the sake of keeping Ultra a secret. Otherwise we might all be German right now. So to with Dr. Brown. Look at his life surrounded in disinformation and secrecy. He knew what he knew and the Caroline Group was a place were he could develop his "science" and kept it out of the hands of those who would use it for there own end and destruction. As for the rest of us we must continue to wade thorugh disinformation on our journey through Wonderland in the life of Dr. Brown. Its called follow the bread trail even if its dark out side. We have to lay down our white rocks to capture the reflection of the moon and follow the path. I mean what would the average joe do with a time machine? Sometimes people unfortunalty will never reach the truth so you must spoon feed them disinformation so to protect them from themselves, while those who know what to look for will continue on the path. The Truth will set you free. The real question is do you want it to or do you want to continue living in your comfortable land of ignorance? Gabe
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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choices

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Hello Gabe,

I think that much of what you say is absolutely true and you seem to be pointing up something that I have noticed also. We seem, as humans in this "interaction" with this "intelligent force" to have absolute freedom of choice.

Have you noticed? I see it reflected in the way that the Caroline Group treats its members. At least the members that I have figured that somehow "signed up".

I believe for instance that Dr. Brown had choices. Probably many choices during his life. He was not the kind of man who could easily be forced to do something he didn't want to do. In fact, in researching his personality ..... I doubt that he ever went in any direction he hadn't already planned out ahead of time. Just look carefully at what Paul has written about him already and you will see what I mean.

Linda, in this whole scenario has reminded me a little bit of humanity as a whole. There were things that were kept from her. Not to hold her back or to be detrimental to her because it looks like Dr. Browns largest emotion was love for his daughter. He was protecting her. So in a way Linda has been like most of us, waking up now to alot of things that she never knew before, becoming her own particular force.

Its going to be interesting to see what will develop through Pauls ability to tell this particular story. He wants to focus the truth on what has been hidden from all of us for a very long time and I believe that he is closer now than anyone has ever come before.

Eventually though, as you said Gabe, its going to end up being our own choice .... to see ... or not to see. And that, I think was always the way that our future was meant.

An Angel stopped a girl at a well. He said to Hagar ..... Where do you come from ?..... and where WILL you go? Again and STILL........ a choice.

Always looking forward to your posts .......... Elizabeth
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