Chapter 31 - Intrepid

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Paul S.
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Chapter 31 - Intrepid

Post by Paul S. »

....has been posted to this URL:

https://www.ttbrown.com/defying_gravity ... repid.html

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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Holy Cow

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

I don't know what I expected from you for this next chapter but HOLY COW.

It all makes total sense. But I can see the difficulty here. You have done a WONDERFUL job of putting this biography of Stephenson together for us! I was really interested in the story itself. It was exciting and easy to read. We all love success stories! But then there is this element of intrigue and the chill of what is coming!its great Paul really and then when I got to the end and realized that you were talking about Mr. X and there is this solid connection between this man and his history to Dr. Brown and Morgan! I am just Blown away! gGoing to go off now and reread this! probably several times and then you can expect more comments. Better than the only thing that keeps coming to my lips HOLY COW!!!!!!!

Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Culpepper
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I expected a great chapter

Post by Mark Culpepper »

And OHBOY OHBOY!!!!!.

Now you are getting into my territory here so expect to hear a little bit from me during all of this. History is my game, not science. And I have to tell you Paul ..... This is one helluva chapter! Standing all by itself it reads well .... is EXTRA ORDINARILY RESEARCHED. I was pleased that you picked up on even the smallest of details. And I think you captured well Stephensons early traits of being able to recognize and collect valuable information. .... and also how he carefully covered his tracks, which is where I can see the Townsend Brown story going!

I do know this of Stephenson. He may have made millions on his business enterprises but it is my understanding that he never collected a cent for his services during the war. In fact he ran his entire staff in New York City out of his own pocket.

I feel for you because I know that Stephenson was a very shadowy figure..... and just getting straight information on him is going to continue to be difficult. I believe the picture that you have posted of him and maybe about five others are the only photographs of him available. Imagine that. And I don't believe ANYONE ever got a picture of him during World War II.

And, do you find it strange that the picture you have of him by his set ... is almost an identical echo of your frontpiece picture of Townsend Brown.?

This is going to be a fascinating discussion! Finally a chance to talk about one of the most important and least talked about men in world history! Mark
grinder
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yeah but

Post by grinder »

Mark C.

I can sense your enthusiasm about getting to talk about this Stephenson but from what I have read so far ..... (got interested just a few months ago about the origins of the James Bond Character .... some people even said that Stephenson was like the REAL James Bond. )

But then I read other places that every thing that he later said he did was questionable. So whats the deal here? Some said it was just the stories of an old man.

One thing I read said that he set up the model for the system that became our CIA. Is that right? and that he was responsible for getting the United States ready for World War II. And that he was a great friend to Winston Churchill? And that he was like the go between FDR and Chruchill during the war And ran a "domestic intelligence service" inside the United States..... which did not make Hoover all that happy. Thats ALOT to be doing, if its all true.

I am like , really confused. How do you end up there from being bankrupt in Canada less than twenty years before? And do we really believe that he could actually have done all of these things?

Well, if so, maybe the fact that Brown is so misread too might have alot to do with his association with Stephenson. I'll give you this Paul .... its a chunk to think about. grinder
Victoria Steele
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fate intervenes/ or is it providence?

Post by Victoria Steele »

You know my Mother used to say that "fate would intervene" but I never liked that much because I felt that it took choice away from the person. If you were fated to do something it was a one direction path with high walls and the end was always predetermined. So later, when I could think more for myself I adopted the saying "Providence Moves to Meet you" that way, if you are not ready for the gifts or the challenges you can step aside and not much comes of anything. But if you are prepared, if you are ready "Providence" meets up with you and then its a miraculous trip!

I see that happening with William Stephenson. Against all odds (imagine being delared permanently disabled because of being "gassed" in warfare and then coming back to become a fighter pilot with just five hours of training to survive that (when he wasn't supposed to) "Providence " was moving within this man , no doubt of it. )

And if you accept that (that he was somehow "gifted with a purpose for his life" )When did all that first manifest itself? I would say that SOMETHING HAPPENED Iin that short space of time between his bankruptcy and the moment he was declared (how did you say that? )... another biographer said he went from "being an unsucessful can opener salesman to being a "brilliant scientist and a leader of industry." Man that sounds like Providence joining up with him as far as I can see it.. Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul S.
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Re: I expected a great chapter

Post by Paul S. »

Mark Culpepper wrote:This is one helluva chapter! Standing all by itself it reads well .... is EXTRA ORDINARILY RESEARCHED.
Thank you, Mark. I'm sure my wife will be pleased to learn that there is somebody out there who appreciates the clutter of books I have scattered around my desk and on the floor around me. It's quite a puddle.
I was pleased that you picked up on... how he carefully covered his tracks, which is where I can see the Townsend Brown story going!
Yeah, those foot prints on the shoreline are long since washed away, and I'm pretty much left to place my faith in those who can point at the sand and say: "that's where they were."
In fact he ran his entire staff in New York City out of his own pocket.
Well, the money might have been coming OUT of his pocket, but there's no telling really how it got there. Well, there might be some telling.. but, uh, you know... all in due course....
And I don't believe ANYONE ever got a picture of him during World War II.
This may well be the only one:

http://webhome.idirect.com/~lhodgson/intrepid.html

...and you'll notice he's ducking away from the camera at the instant the film was exposed.
This is going to be a fascinating discussion! Finally a chance to talk about one of the most important and least talked about men in world history!
I presume you are referring to Stephenson there, but it could be just as well that you'd be talking about Townsend Brown.

At least, that's how it looks from my spot on the beach.

--P
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Paul S.
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Re: yeah but

Post by Paul S. »

grinder wrote:One thing I read said that he set up the model for the system that became our CIA. Is that right?
The evidence seems to support that claim. Stephenson had a hand in Roosevelt's selection of William "Wild Bill Donovan" to form the Office of Special Services (OSS) in World War II, and OSS was pretty much the precursor to the Central Intelligence Agency. It went through a couple of incarnations before the NSA (National Security Act) was enacted, creating the CIA in 1947, but the nuts and bolts of it was what was left over from the old OSS.
And that he was a great friend to Winston Churchill?
Churchill was the one who dubbed him "Intrepid," and -- I don't have the source material in front of me right this minute so I could be misquoting -- when Stephenson was knighted, Churchill said something to the effect that "this one is very dear to me." So, yeah, they wuz buds.
And that he was like the go between FDR and Chruchill during the war And ran a "domestic intelligence service" inside the United States.....
It was called "British Security Coordination" (BSC) and it was based in Rockefeller Center in NYC and yes, it was a foreign espionage operation conducted on American soil with the full knowledge of the President, but...
which did not make Hoover all that happy.
...you're right, Hoover felt that he should be in charge of ALL intelligence activities in the United States, and that might be one reason that foreign intelligence operations for the United States were in such disarray between the World Wars.
I am like , really confused. How do you end up there from being bankrupt in Canada less than twenty years before? And do we really believe that he could actually have done all of these things?
I guess it pays to have friends in extra-high places, like Admiral Reginald "Blinker" Hall.
Well, if so, maybe the fact that Brown is so misread too might have alot to do with his association with Stephenson. I'll give you this Paul .... its a chunk to think about.
Yeah, you really don't want to spend a whole lot of time rattling around in my brain. Every now and then I stop to think and wonder..."whew, how'd I ever wind up in THIS neighborhood...?"

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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anomalies

Post by Victoria Steele »

sometimes pure facts can also help you see things! If you look for the strange ones in the group. Like finding turtles on fenceposts! You know that there is some other force at work here, besides the turtle.

For example. Dr. Brown is a radio student seaman first class in San Diego. Yet the FACTS show that he was able to not only suggest to the Navy that they take over his set of equipment AND HAVE IT AGREED THAT HE WOULD BE PUT IN CHARGE OF THAT SAME EQUIPMENT IN THE BEST LABORATORY SITUTION AVAILABLE TO THE NAVY AT THE TIME, (THEIR OWN RESEARCH LAB.) AND all this happened in less than a month.

Now folks! I love the Navy but its just like any other big outfit! and NORMALLY they just don't work that fast. SO WHO PULLED STRINGS?

AND NOW PAUL IS TALKING ABOUT A MAN NAMED STEPHENSON WHO MAGICALLY SEEMED TO HAVE CONNECTIONS THAT CATAPULTED HIM INTO POSITIONS OF SUCCESS AND POWER ....... so who pulled strings for him too? Victoria
Last edited by Victoria Steele on Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mark Culpepper
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learning history

Post by Mark Culpepper »

Paul,

Just a question for the student of history that you have become Paul. Did you expect this? I mean .... when you got that first inspiration to follow up on that mystery E mail (boy to we owe alot to THAT FELLOW!) did you think that it would lead you into the path of men like Stephenson? Did you even have the slightest idea that Dr. Brown might have been involved in this type of thing?

Stephensons connections by the way reached well into the entertainment industry. David Niven actually is reported to have been a member of his "network" .... which is sort of ironic because I understand that he later played the role of William Stevenson in a movie called " A man called Intrepid". I haven't seen it and have been on the hunt now because it will take on a whole new meaning to me.

Just strange that your path has gone this far ......... and in a direction that must have been a surprise. Mark C
Paul S.
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Re: learning history

Post by Paul S. »

Mark Culpepper wrote:Just a question for the student of history that you have become Paul. Did you expect this? I mean .... when you got that first inspiration to follow up on that mystery E mail (boy to we owe alot to THAT FELLOW!) did you think that it would lead you into the path of men like Stephenson? Did you even have the slightest idea that Dr. Brown might have been involved in this type of thing?
Not a clue.
Stephensons connections by the way reached well into the entertainment industry. David Niven actually is reported to have been a member of his "network" .... which is sort of ironic because I understand that he later played the role of William Stevenson in a movie called " A man called Intrepid".
That's true, it was actually a TeeVee mini-series and yes, Nevin plays Intrepid. Not surprising at all that Stephenson's "network" reached into entertainment, after all it has roots there.
I haven't seen it and have been on the hunt now because it will take on a whole new meaning to me.
It's very hard to come by... I found a copy that somebody in Canada made for me. I don't think it's available commercially. If you'd like I can see if I can find who made that one for me.
Just strange that your path has gone this far ......... and in a direction that must have been a surprise.
You're quite right, this project has evolved into a far cry from anything I might have imagined at the outset.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Martin Calloway
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more questions

Post by Martin Calloway »

Lets see if I have this straight so far. You are basically sayinging that there might be a possibility that your Townsend Brown was able to meet "the man called Intrepid" in Nassau in 1933 .... and then just months later ..... the threat which was Hitler .... walked into leadership of Germany.

Now lets go back to that palatial ship crusing in those warm waters. You think that Stephenson at that time would not have been aware of the threat Hitler represented? Not hardly. I would bet my eye teeth that was one of the reasons he was there, stepping on board.

You think that he would not have been discussing that problem with those gentlemen? communications experts that they all were ... even Brown .But .... Paul ..... How are you going to prove an involvement for Townsend Brown in all of this?

You have said that from here on out following your mans trail is going to get progressively more difficult. I never understood why it was important to maintain such a low profile .... why he moved so much ... why he never wrote any technical papers ..... The Philadelphia Experiment is still a mystery to me but I begin to suspect that its all somehow connected.

I must say Paul ....... this is fascinating.

And this Twigsnapper? The fellow that chimed in saying that he was an "escort" for Dr. Brown while in England. Military Police? CIA? Who the heck is he?

And the other question (with all due respects to a gentleman that must be quite elderly by now .... how do I know that he is not .... imagining his participation in all of this. Its easy to have happen when you get past a certain age. Many questions, sorry........ Martin
Paul S.
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...and more "non-answers"

Post by Paul S. »

...which is pretty much par for the course in this territory.
Martin Calloway wrote:Lets see if I have this straight so far. You are basically sayinging that there might be a possibility that your Townsend Brown was able to meet "the man called Intrepid" in Nassau in 1933 .... and then just months later ..... the threat which was Hitler .... walked into leadership of Germany.
Not months, Martin. Days.
Now lets go back to that palatial ship crusing in those warm waters. You think that Stephenson at that time would not have been aware of the threat Hitler represented? Not hardly. I would bet my eye teeth that was one of the reasons he was there, stepping on board.
Something I read after I wrote/uploaded that chapter confirms your suspicions. Stephenson went to Germany (sorry, the date escapes me) to secure steel for one of his manufacturing concerns. Imagine his surprise when he learned that all German steel had been diverted to military production.
You think that he would not have been discussing that problem with those gentlemen? communications experts that they all were ... even Brown .But .... Paul ..... How are you going to prove an involvement for Townsend Brown in all of this?
Prove? I have to "prove" anything? Will "hearsay" do the job?

The only proof will be in the rustling leaves. I cannot show you the wind.
I must say Paul ....... this is fascinating.
No sh*t, Sherlock. What can I tell you other than "it's certainly held my attention for going on now four years." And it would not have done that if it had not gotten progressively more interesting as the process has unfolded. In the final analysis, it may well be that the best I can do is simply present what I have learned in as forthright a manner as I can present it. Proof? That could take slightly longer.
And this Twigsnapper? The fellow that chimed in saying that he was an "escort" for Dr. Brown while in England. Military Police? CIA? Who the heck is he?
What were we saying earlier? If he tells us, either he -- or somebody else -- might wanna kill us. Sometimes ignorance has its merits, too, ya know?
And the other question (with all due respects to a gentleman that must be quite elderly by now .... how do I know that he is not .... imagining his participation in all of this. Its easy to have happen when you get past a certain age.
"Imaginging" things because he's "past a certain age" ? I'm not goin' near that one... :wink:

--PS
Last edited by Paul S. on Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Victoria Steele
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not me

Post by Victoria Steele »

Yes, Martin, dangerous territory there .... this old age and senility thing. Just ranks right up with "Shes only a woman, what can she know?"

Well this woman has been looking for a common denominator. You know. Between Stephenson, Johnson and the way it might have reflected in Townsend Browns life. Well, Communications .... for sure .... but thats not all .

In the time that Townsend Brown was supposed to be involved with TPX (1943?????) Wasn't he supposed to be a radar expert? Granted , it was early radar .... but I thought I read somewhere that he was considered quite an expert. I might be a little off on the dates ... but I did discover that Stephenson reportedly had quite a role in development of the early radar stations in England ..... anybody know more about that?

Seems to me that someone who already knows that Hitler was gearing up for war ..... by closing off steel sales .... would be very interested in getting the best and the brightest under his wing as quickly as possible. And I really believe that Townsend Brown would have been a prime recruit.

So, on Thursday, are we going to go back to that?

I am torn now. I love the Linda/Morgan love story .... but seeing Dr. Brown "recruited" into an "intelligence organization" run maybe by Stephenson ...... thats pretty heady stuff.

But wait .... Years later (thirty one to be exact)..... thats what happens with Morgan too? Morgan meets "Mr. X" and goes sailing with him .... and I'll just bet he gets recruited by Stephenson, just as Brown was ....

I am right aren't I? I just stumbled into that. Morgan was "recruited " too ...... so thats what Andrew meant in that last locked out post when he said "Brown was working on a multigenerational project" .THATS WHAT HE MEANT. hA! A REAL AHA! MOMENT HERE FOLKS. Victoria
Gabriel
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Post by Gabriel »

Put two and two together. Maybe Morgan was recomended by Brown and told Stevenson about a bright and up in coming star that would be important in the future. Logically morgan spent sometime sleeping in Brown's lab while he was visting Linda in Florida and began to understand the ramifications of his work. Brown i am sure discussed many things with him. I mean someone who is taking russian in high school is probably going to be very smart especially if he could understand all of the scientific lingo. I mean I have read some of Browns journals posted on Andrew's web site and boy it goes over my head. It takes a certain mind to be able to put pieces together and form a great puzzle. Maybe the torch had been passed to the next generation to continue Browns work. I mean somebody who undersatnds this stuff would be a logical heir and be able to carry on his work. As so few people really got to know Brown outside of his family. Here we have it folks and love story wrapped up with science. do I hear a movie script? :P
MARK MOODY
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MOVIE-DID SOMEONE SAY MOVIE?

Post by MARK MOODY »

Gabriel did you say movie?
G-R-E-A-T idea!
About the average person or layman understanding some of Brown's work, here is a true story for everyone. I never went to college, did good in high school algebra but never did as well in science.
Yet, with all that being said, I find oddly enough, I am attracted to physics and electronics! Always have been since the early 80's but never went to college for it. My wife is constantly asking me " Why are you interested in that stuff?, you never went to school for it".

But, and here is the weird part, I find that the more I read about it, the more I understand it! As for Brown's notebooks, one time Moore was selling them and I purchased everyone he was selling.
I read through them and understood a great deal more than I did not understand! Later, when I moved, I lost those treasures.

But, I say all that to say this, sometimes a thing makes itself understandable even to people like us. All that is needed is patience and persisitance. I now know computers, but never went to school for that either, another "self-taught" subject. As my dad used to say, if you have a problem, leave it alone for awhile and then come back to it-the solution will appear. I find this to be true in all things in life.

Mark
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