Chapter 27 - A complete System

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Trickfox,

Nice to see you up and firing away, hopefully over your cold.
I understand what you mean about not recognizing what you have written. I do it all the time then go back later and realize that I actually have made some small sense. And you wonder where that comes from.

I know that there are many religions out there who can easily come up with answers to that but I prefer not to have an answer actually because at the moment, I really don't believe that I deserve one yet. Elizabeth

[grinder]

Hello H. Short. Welcome to the forum.

I wanted to point out something sort of interesting.
Maybe you guys noticed it, maybe not.
Your post was March of this year and it came right after something that Trickfox posted in march also ..... One year earlier! THERE WAS A WHOLE YEAR BETWEEN POSTS. Does it seem strange to anybody that the subject just sat there for an entire year before exploding again into action.

Well, it just seems strange to me.
And even in March Trickfox was talking about the Vegas meeting in November and the fact that Paul was going to be a speaker. So......... Paul..... should we start talking about another Vegas thing or are you going to pass on the next one. Actually I would be sort of curious to see the sort of reaction you might get after people have had a year to acquaint themselves with the Townsend Brown story .... or at least the Townsend Brown story that has some real meat on it.

So should I start saving my pennies , nickles and dimes for that conference? grinder

[Trickfox]

http://www.frank.germano.com/viktorschauberger_4.htm

H. Short's reference to schauberger was interesting so I looked up the principle and found this website. WOW.... This vortex flow stuff would certainly produce an excellent flame jet electrostatic generator.

Interestingly enough the math modeling of molecular flow and electric potentials has inner beauty. Kevinb would surely appreciate this.

Thank you for contributing H. Short. Gregg.... Are you serious about looking for these high voltage generators?

Has anyone considered putting several 500Kv. generators in series?
What sort of dielectrics "fluid or otherwise" could be used?

Gregg, somewhere in my pile of written knowledge, I have a two inch thick lab journal filled with several patents on cascading high voltage generators. There are several dozen configurations and circuit set-ups. They were all developed by a fellow named Richard H. Baker, and ultimately they were assigned to the EXXON CORPORATION in 1977. (sorry I forget the patent numbers range at the moment)

There is also an IEEE journal of solid state circuits report dated June of 1971 (it is refered to as report 433 in our circle). It's a paper on the "Theoretical Performance of Voltage Multiplier Circuits"
This material goes a long way towards understanding what you are trying to do in a practical manner.

Our esteemed in-house specialist on propulsion "IS" Andrew Bolland, and whatever else some of us may be trying to model at the nanolevel is still just that; "mathematical modelling".

Andrew would be a better advisor on the issues you are facing when trying to develop practical technology for propulsion systems

To answer Grinder's question about the next "Las Vegas Conference", let me just propose that you save up your money to go NORTH to Montreal this time Grinder. Who knows, that whole area between Philadelphia New York and Montreal is a very interesting area. Just planting a seed here!

Trickfox

[Paul S.]

So......... Paul..... should we start talking about another Vegas thing or are you going to pass on the next one.

I have no plans presently to do another Las Vegas-type thing this year. Getting that together took a lot of time and energy, and while it was all worthwhile, I think the time now is better spent getting the book finished. Then I'll really have something to talk about.

--PS

[greggvizza]

Trickfox:

If the disks will function on a very limited current supply, then the voltage multipliers would be the inexpensive light weight way to go. Most of them are capacitor-diode ladder networks. Very inexpensive, but I am not sure if there are diodes that can handle 500kV, I will have to research that. I would definitely welcome any info that you have on the topic; I’m sure there is quite a bit that I am not familiar with.

I suspect that the cascaded flyback arrangement that Mikado used, had a pulsed DC output probably at 15750Hz. Don’t know how he would have rectified 500kV in 1978. Were 500kV diodes available back then? I suppose he could have just used 12 lower voltage ones in series.

The Glassman is a regulated DC supply; very smooth pure output. I don’t know if this is a good thing or not. I suppose that the pulsed DC from the flyback transformers ends up as smooth DC at the disc anyway, due to the fact that the 2 disks, with dielectric material, are in essence a capacitor; so maybe it’s the same. The laboratory supply definitely has its advantages in the fact that it is totally variable for voltage and current, making it very easy to plot performance and efficiency curves.

JLN found that the greatest efficiency for a lifter is obtained using square waves around 70Hz; I have no idea if this would apply to discs, being that they are very low leakage. Mikado made the statement that an ideal disc would draw no current once it was charged. So I am not sure a pulsed supply would even benefit. Once it becomes fully charged and ceases to draw current it wouldn’t even see the pulses.

If a fully charged disc, drawing no current, continues to generate a plasma, then it must be tapping energy from the aether or somewhere to maintain that plasma. See how there is too much to think about. I could just spend the rest of my life thinking. This is why I need to build something. To establish some solid reference points to tie my mind to, so it doesn’t over-rev and damage something.

Gregg

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Gregg,

For goodness sake! Lets not do any damage <g>

I am just poking my head into this wonderful technical conversation to remind all of you that Townsend Brown pointed to nature many times as one of the sources for answers in this work. And ball lightning was the effect that he pointed out to his daughter, noting that it did not act as todays "rules" said that it should. That it continued sometimes wandering about long after it should have discharged completely. I believe that he felt it was "drawing from some other source" for that mystery energy. You will note Paul has mentioned this too but forgive me, I am lost in the forum maze as to where that reference might be.

Think about all this stuff but you are right. You need to go slow. Otherwise you know what happens to a battery that is overcharged! Nasty. Elizabeth

[Mikado14]

I suspect that the cascaded flyback arrangement that Mikado used, had a pulsed DC output probably at 15750Hz.

Your are correct and incorrect. The flyback will handle other freguencies as well.

Don’t know how he would have rectified 500kV in 1978. Were 500kV diodes available back then? I suppose he could have just used 12 lower voltage ones in series.

Remember Kirchoff and Thevenin.

I suppose that the pulsed DC from the flyback transformers ends up as smooth DC at the disc anyway, due to the fact that the 2 disks, with dielectric material, is in essence a capacitor; so maybe it’s the same.

Remember your power supply basics from school gregg, what happens to the ripple on an unloaded supply with a capacitor ouput with no load? What is your load on a disc?

JLN found that the greatest efficiency for a lifter is obtained using square waves around 70Hz; I have no idea if this would apply to discs, being that they are very low leakage. Mikado made the statement that an ideal disc would draw no current once it was charged. So I am not sure a pulsed supply would even benefit. Once it becomes fully charged and ceases to draw current it wouldn’t even see the pulses.

JLN was talking lifters, not a disc. As you said previously they are different animals. The load on the lifter supply is different than the load on a disc supply.

If a fully charged disc, drawing no current, continues to generate a plasma, then it must be tapping energy from the aether or somewhere to maintain that plasma. See how there is too much to think about. I could just spend the rest of my life thinking. This is why I need to build something. To establish some solid reference points to tie my mind to, so it doesn’t over-rev and damage something.

I'm beginning to really like this guy.


Mikado

Addendum: Gregg, I ascribe to the notion to teach a man to fish rather than to give him a fish today. You said in a previous post about reinventing the wheel, however, you also said you needed to do it to see it. I will pop in when I see something but as Trickfox has said, Andrew is the "in house" expert. He has built and flown discs as per Dr. Brown's notes and he should be the one helping. I never flew in a vacuum and I have no clue if mine were similar and how my results compared with his, that was over 25 years ago. All data was lost in '98 thanks to aberrations in the Constitution and the politics of Ridge, Clinton, Specter, Santorum, Gerlach and others...may they...what ever.

[greggvizza]

I believe that he felt it was "drawing from some other source" for that mystery energy.

Good point Elizabeth. Thanks for bringing that up. Ball lighting is a plasma.

Tesla also alluded to this mystery power source. I cant wait to find out for myself. I have become board over the years with standard engineering. I am definitely ready for something fresh.

GV

[greggvizza]

Mikado,

Who would not rather learn to fish than be given a fish. I’m in total agreement there. I appreciate your input.

Remember your power supply basics from school gregg, what happens to the ripple on an unloaded supply with a capacitor ouput with no load? What is your load on a disc?

That was my conclusion as well. I was just thinking out loud again. If a fully charged disk draws no additional current, then the ripple will be smoothed to pure DC by the capacitor. Very different than a lifter. Lifters must have been a deliberate diversion.

I thought that Flybacks were optimized for 15750Hz; and as the frequency is lowered from there they become progressively more inefficient.

GV

[Victoria Steele]

Gentlemen,

Please consider this a sidebar conversation because I don't want to pull you away from your discussion. Technically you have lost me in the dust but I appreciate reading the comments and sensing the excitement. So don't let me draw you off.

I just wanted to encourage all of you to go back if you don't mind and reread what I wrote MARCH 16, 2006 ... More than a year ago. Catch that I mentioned the demonstration that got me kicked off in this direction ( yes that rare feeling of energy and excitement again!) . Notice too that I mentioned Mark Bean and what he had said about Townsend Brown being more important than TESLA in history, Now. You hav to really stop for a moment and see what this man was proclaiming! AND YET. Its been over a year and not one word from Mark Bean. Not one word from the man who was demonstrating one of TTBrowns effects to large crowds.
Now, pardon me. But Mark Bean? Where the hell did you go? You would have been the ONE person I really would have expected to check into and contribute to the forum. Andrew has said that your life has taken you in other directions but short of being dead I just can't see that. Nobody with any real intellect puts this technology on a back burner. Like I said a year ago when I first heard about it ( from Mark!!!) My head started having its own private party and I am still hearing the music. Turn your back on that? I don't think so. So, what happened Mark? I would really like to know. Victoria

[Mikado14]

Nobody with any real intellect puts this technology on a back burner. Like I said a year ago when I first heard about it ( from Mark!!!) My head started having its own private party and I am still hearing the music. Turn your back on that? I don't think so. So, what happened Mark? I would really like to know. Victoria

Ah redheads! I have always had a soft spot for them with green eyes...hmmm, maybe blue. Such passion!

Can I throw something at you and see if you catch it? Maybe Mark Bean has real intellect and is going to the next level. I will give you a comparison that I gave a young person the other day on a PM.

Flying a disc is analogous to holding a compass next to a wire carrying current. The first is Brown, the second is Oersted. They both prove principles, however, just as you cannot explain the entire EM spectrum from the compass and wire, you cannot explain all of "gravitics" with a flying disc.

Maybe Mark Bean realized this and is further down the road.

Just a thought there...."reds"

Mikado

[Victoria Steele]

Well, you see, thats just my point. Should I consider that a forgone conclusion that Mr. Mark Bean has gone in an advanced direction? I would not doubt it, have been thinking it and now Mikado, I discover I am not alone. I hate assumptions ( you all know) but its hard NOT to reach the idea that Mark Bean has just gone on to perhaps the next level. And just isn't telling anybody about it.

Or maybe he just REALLY isn't interested in this field anymore. Only he could tell us for sure but even then I would wonder. You judge people by their actions but I just can't imagine that the animated and enthusiastic speaker and demonstrator of Townsend Brown " tethered discs" would just call it a day.

But you know even if he has moved quietly into advanced research I hope that he is going to be able to adjust himself for having company out there. From what I have seen on this post the potential for other research groups spawning is enormous and anybody out there that thought maybe he had a lead had better look over his shoulder.

Green eyes Mikado. And the monster that goes with them! Victoria

[H. Short]

Otherwise you know what happens to a battery that is overcharged! Nasty. Elizabeth

They produce Hydrogen which is a pretty good fuel; when it isn't a bomb... :)

Actually, I just clicked on this message to let you know that your wish to cruise in a TTB convertible has been 'virtually' granted... :) There is an earlier section on EMV propulsion drives, but this one is for you and Rex. (Just remember this is all your doing for making me laugh so much...)

http://hcs.atspace.org/TTB/idx_TTB.html#anchorR_EHD

[H. Short]

Hello H. Short. Welcome to the forum.

I wanted to point out something sort of interesting.
Maybe you guys noticed it, maybe not.
Your post was March of this year and it came right after something that Trickfox posted in march also ..... One year earlier! THERE WAS A WHOLE YEAR BETWEEN POSTS. Does it seem strange to anybody that the subject just sat there for an entire year before exploding again into action.

Well, it just seems strange to me. .. grinder

Thanks for the welcome.

Full Circle: I hadn't caught the time relationship between the two posts. However; regarding March, from my perspective its a little strange that you mention it... My first exposure to this subject in the form of the sub prototype was in early '65 - it very well could have been March. Then a couple years ago my next revelation regarding this propulsion system occurred in March while I was looking at the vortex systems created by Schauberger discs: I knew heavy electro-magnetic mechanical designs could create the necessary conditions but could never figure out how to design something without all that weight, so it might fly. The Schauberger design certainly seems capable of it even though no one else mentions that aspect except to say that there is a coronal glow during their operation. Then this year, 42 years after the initial exposure, I stumble on Paul's site and find out who may have been the original inventor of the concept - in March... I don't really know what to think about it, but it is somewhat 'strange' as you say - even more so since you broached the subject more or less out of the blue...

Still on the subject of full circles: if you make progress while completing a circle, you are treading new ground. Its more like a spiral; hopefully progressing upwards or onwards.

EMV Propulsion Systems: I posted some diagrams, but no new info, on the electro-magnetic-vector drive concept at the url below, in case you or any of the others are interested. When I get some more time I'll also put a message over in the Science section.

http://hcs.atspace.org/TTB/idx_TTB.html

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

And we can still laugh. Worries and pleases me that it possible to find kindred spirits out there. Thankyou . Elizabeth