Chapter 42 - Your First Lesson

[twigsnapper]

Linda,

I agree. Scarey swords in the right hands.

This may be slightly off the Townsend Brown subject but since you grew up Palos Verdes then your brothers must have had some sort of passing knowledge of "The brothers Norris" as some called them. Chuck Norris had one of the first of his karate schools in the Torrance area I believe.

So I wanted to ask you what your brother might think now of Norris' recent move to found this outfit called "World Combat League". Is your brother still a martial artist? Does he keep up with such things?

And more particularly I wondered how you felt this would reflect on Chuck Norris' various Christian efforts with his wife Gina.

Its been a puzzle to me how a man who professes to have "returned to the faith of his childhood in Oklahoma" could promote teams of fighters which intent is to go "all out, no holds" for the public "enjoyment".

To me, it doesn't even sound like the individual who started his Kick Drugs Out of America program and I wondered what you thought about that?

And where did all these stupid and sometimes nasty Chuck Norris jokes come from? Some kind of backlash on him? Any thoughts appreciated. Twigsnapper

[Mark Culpepper]

Yes, there are so many crude jokes out there floating around about the man you wonder what is behind all of that.

Understand, though his movies were fun to watch I was never that much of a fan of Chuck Norris. Actually I could make my own joke up about ..... "Chuck Norris is so dangerous he is even painful to watch"

Hey, not bad.

And I have admired all the things that he has done for kids in the past. His Kick Drugs out of America was great.

But I'd like to know too. Where is this fight league coming from? Pure profit motive? He professes to have gone back to fundalmental Christianity, but that seems odd.

Linda, Can you tell me more about "Chinese school" and what it involved? Was it a special language class? Mark C.

[LongboardLOVELY]

Linda,

I agree. Scarey swords in the right hands.

My grandfather (and great grandfather) on my father's side was in the army. There used to be fantastic sword play and marching in their time. I've seen some pictures of the weapons they had worked with. I don't think we have those pictures or paintings left.

This may be slightly off the Townsend Brown subject...

I disagree, sir. This chapter is about secret organizations, fighting oppression manifested through the actions of certain peoples and countries. I am sure martial arts comes up in the story somewhere.
And, of course we WERE talking about a certain very scary looking knife.

...but since you grew up Palos Verdes then your brothers must have had some sort of passing knowledge of "The brothers Norris" as some called them. Chuck Norris had one of the first of his karate schools in the Torrance area I believe.

1963, Hawthorne Blvd. When we were growing up in Torrance, his dojo had moved to Lakewood (I believe). Of course most everyone (in my circle of friends and family) may have heard of the Torrance training center. He has 2 brothers, one of who died in Vietnam. The other is a producer, right? The dojo he had in Torrance was not the first, but was the first to study and award rank, I believe.

So I wanted to ask you what your brother might think now of Norris' recent move to found this outfit called "World Combat League". Is your brother still a martial artist? Does he keep up with such things?

No, my bro' was in Tae Kwan Do years ago for awhile, but he is not still a martial artist, sad to say. I had been in Ryobu Kai for a few years; I too am ashamed to say that I have forsaken the practice. I think I shall go back to it, though. I don't think my bro' knows anything about the WCL.

And more particularly I wondered how you felt this would reflect on Chuck Norris' various Christian efforts with his wife Gina.

Are you referring to the WCL? I have no idea.

Its been a puzzle to me how a man who professes to have "returned to the faith of his childhood in Oklahoma" could promote teams of fighters which intent is to go "all out, no holds" for the public "enjoyment".

To me, it doesn't even sound like the individual who started his Kick Drugs Out of America program and I wondered what you thought about that?

And where did all these stupid and sometimes nasty Chuck Norris jokes come from? Some kind of backlash on him? Any thoughts appreciated. Twigsnapper

What do you think about all that, Mr. Twigsnapper? I have never heard of the WCL, so I don't have an opinion. I went to the website though.

Maybe Mr. Norris has his own explanations for what type of relationship this http://www.worldcombatleague.com/ has with his faith. No, you are right, it doesn't sound anything like the KickStart Program. Maybe, Mr. Norris can join the forum in some secret way and answer those questions himself?

Adult Swim, a late night segment on Cartoon Network, currently airs Chuck Norris' Karate Kommandos as a joke. Now it's part of the lineup in rotation. Norris was parodied in a Saturday Night Live music video spoof entitled "The Young Chuck Norris", which aired January 21, 2006.
Most of the time, I don't like it when someone is the butt of a joke. That's just plain disrespectful.

If anyone wants to watch him late at night, he is the spokesperson for the informercial, Total Gym Fitness.

Linda B.

[LongboardLOVELY]

Linda, Can you tell me more about "Chinese school" and what it involved? Was it a special language class? Mark C.

Like Hebrew School or Greek school in the early Eighties. Those of us who were second generation were required (by our parents) to go to Chinese School. All of my regular school age friends, and a lot of my family would go to Chinese School Every Saturday Morning and we'd miss out on all our favorite cartoons. We'd learn to read and write Mandarin and Cantonese. We were required to only speak in Mandarin while on the school campus. We'd learn history, poetry, and even had some advanced math and science classes, all in Mandarin. I used to bemoan to my husband about the fact that I'd miss out on so much Saturday mornings, but I think now, as I am writing this, that I was one of the very privileged children in that era. School lasted from 8am to about 12:30 pm and then we'd have lunch together and some form of extracurricular activity.
As I mentioned above, I learned the art of Classical Chinese Folkdancing. If I ever meet you, I'll be sure to show you some of my old pictures. This included the basket dance, the ribbon dance, the lion/phoenix songs etc. I also learned Chinese Calligraphy and I still have my own Mao Bi set at my parents home.
I wanted to do Martial Arts, but when I was 10-15, girls did not do Martial Arts. PITY.

Oh, and I met Linda Lee and her daughter, Shannon in Chinese School. That's Bruce Lee's wife and daughter. Nice lady. She was very proficient in Mandarin and Cantonese. Shannon and Linda lived in Rolling Hills for a very long time. I think she went to school at Chadwick (Shannon that is).

It's so sad that so many of my generation and their offspring do not speak their mother language.

Linda B.

[Martin Calloway]

I agree with what you have said Linda. I find it distastful when someone makes rude and disparaging jokes about someone. Reminds me of being in elementary school and some of these Chuck Norris jokes are just that stupid. I still wonder what is behind them. Some of them actually come out and say he is a killer. Now, where is THAT coming from? Not fair and not cool, but he is a big boy and I am sure can handle the jokes.

It may be that there are alot of people out there who actually LIKE the guy. And generally LIKE what he seemed to stand for, though I have to admit I too am alittle puzzled by this fight league. It doesn't seem to square with other things that he has done in the past and I join with you Linda. If any one out there happens to know him personally perhaps he can be asked that question? Why the fight league Chuck?

As far as the rude jokes about him. I sense other agendas at work here. Perhaps there is an element that is upset with him for becoming such an outspoken Christian (especially after all the kickem silly movies). Still . Thats what Americans liked at the time. You can't dispute the popularity of his movies and even though Walker was sometimes hard to watch from a dramatic point of view, people did form an attachment to the show. How long did it last? eight years, nine? Pretty good run! Martin

[Martin Calloway]

I was reading a little about the Bletchley Park situation and they mentioned that that they "recruited" some people that would be good for codebreaking by having a "crossword puzzle" competition. Codebreakers would be able to work crossword puzzles easily.

What if the same kind of thing was happening right now? With Martial artists? I mean, I know thats a wild and way out thought, but if I wanted to get the cream of the crop in martial artists all in one spot at one time how would I go about it? Start a league? Not that I suspect Chuck Norris of that kind of involvement but perhaps there is SOMETHING of that sort going on and maybe the league organizers wouldn't even be totally aware of it.

Its a possible scenario, like you said Linda, we are talking about mysterious organizations with secret agendas and this sounds sort of like a situation that would fit. I don't have any idea if its workable or not but maybe? Martin

[LongboardLOVELY]

I was reading a little about the Bletchley Park situation and they mentioned that that they "recruited" some people that would be good for codebreaking by having a "crossword puzzle" competition. Codebreakers would be able to work crossword puzzles easily.

...
Its a possible scenario, like you said Linda, we are talking about mysterious organizations with secret agendas and this sounds sort of like a situation that would fit. I don't have any idea if its workable or not but maybe? Martin

It's not a wild thought, Martin. I think you maybe onto something. What do others think along these lines?

Linda

[Chris Knight]

I hate to bring up the 80's again (my favorite decade), but in all seriousness, do you remember that movie, The Last Starfighter, in which they (good guys) used a video game to recruit their fighters? A crossword puzzle competition seems like a perfectly plausible method for recruiting people with certain qualifications.

If I were in need of recruits for scienific endevours, I would scour science fairs at least, and even possibly hold a research paper contest. I'd prefer something like the science fair route, though - the cross-section would be much better, I think.

Andrew

[Victoria Steele]

What you have mentioned about some sort of quiet recruitment going on is entirely plausible to me. But look at (in the case of the " fight organization") the people that they would be recruiting. For what purpose I wonder?

I met a VERY interesting man this weekend ( Yes Victoria, I hear myself saying, there might be hope for you yet.) He is a private security person. (Meaning he is basically hired by wealthy individuals to take care of their family or business partners in dangerous parts of the world.)

He is not affiliated with the military and his firm is his own ........ and so when he called me a few minutes ago I mentioned that question that you just asked, what might be going on, from his standpoint? and his immediate response is that some large security outfit is probably beefing up its kidnap retrieval options. Specially trained martial artists would play a part in that and there seems to be a growing need he said.

I am not going to tell you what else we talked about but I will say he is a charming individual.

But if what he says is true. Then there is the possibility that SOMEONE is getting a head start on something. Do we have mass kidnappings in our future? Or has that always been a threat and I just never paid any attention to it? And then I thought of this story and the character "Charles" and I realized that maybe this sort of thing has been going on for decades, at least. Fascinating thought actually.

Just my contribution from my end of the world. Victoria

[Trickfox]

How about a martial arts "blood sport" match between Chuck Norris and Stephen Segal?

Would either one of them love to participate for real, or don't you think they would they prefer making a movie about it and fake out the whole world to make a buck?

You are making me laugh because war in hollywood is just a big mindf**k
Segal claims he got fired from CIA . He was friends with Maheu and co.

It's just another onion peel folks, so what happened to the so-called loyalties these people were suppose to adhear to?

Is it real or is it memorex?

I guess we will find out who the real martial artists are when they decide to show up in the security and kidnapp revovery industry!

Trickfox

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Hello Trickfox and everybody,

I have been pondering over this global fighting "league" and from what I have seen of it, Norris is fully invested as its backer and number one fan. And I am sure that given the temper and the frustrations of todays world there are probably folks out there that will pay good money to watch this sort of "no rules all -out fighting." When in Rome, you know.

And thats exactly what has me sort of worried. Rome turned to this sort of bloodsport when it wanted to keep the collective conciousness of the masses from figuring out that something was TERRIBLY WRONG with their society at the time. A few hours at the colliseum and you might go home a little hungry but, by damned, you were shown a good time and, you were better off than that poor slave being sacrificed in the arena! Lucky fellow that you were.

You can tell that I am not really talking about Rome.

And I get equally upset when I have to sit through these long TV conversations about Brittany Speers (sp?) or some other charade, hoping all the time that somebody on the damned newshow will tell me something about what is actually REALLY going on in the world. But like the guy in the satellite TV commercial says when requests were made of him "Yeah, right. I wanted a pony too but I'm not going to get that either."

And now this lingering hunch that something is in the works regarding private security forces ramping up their effectiveness and skills (AND NUMBERS, GREATLY). And I ask myself what that might mean? And I am not sure I like my conclusions! Currently we have our military stretched pretty darned thin. If something MAJOR happened here, could we expect our own military to come to our rescue? I'd be careful of holding your breath.

Did you folks know that Blackwater security was brought in to handle some of the "tougher" situations in New Orleans. Now, Blackwater is a private firm with connections to the military. They were under contract from FEMA I believe to supply security and to stop rioting. Just how big are these "private security operations" planning on getting, I wonder?

I do appreciate law and order but how much of our personal security are we giving away without realizing it. Handing it off to armed private guards .... working for????? Now there is a real good question. Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

Well I would like to point out that whatever and whomever wishes to help solve world issues must begin by understanding terribly important existing agendas.

In the past some of the most poetic conflicts in the world were resolved by some sort of marriage between opponents and the natural resources were shared to negotiated degrees.

in other past events conquering empires wiped out its oposition and the rule existed were totaly based on the word of one individual only.

Then came democratic rule and comunistic rule which took hold relatively recently....... however,

In a manner of cultures and languages, -Faith in the existence of the "supernatural" allways turned out to be the most difficult issue to resolve.

Once again it seems we are faced with the promotion of faith in the supernatural powers of one or more individuals.

Often faith is based on directed perspective in belief of Unknown Unknowns (dual intention and impossible to predict).

how difficult will it be to combine Arab and Israeli faith into a "united point" of view? Will they both have to see SATAN himself first?

Perhaps It would it take the power of a "world wide supernatural event" like the demonstrated proof of intelligent life on another planet (ala-Day the Earth Stood Still), Perhaps such a supernatural event would force everyone to think about what they REALLY believe reality is all about.

Communication is the first problem to resolve to help discuss and resolve the issues of faith. It is one solution understood by all as primary concerns.

To see what needs resolution, -Subjectively we are all forced to look at the conflidt issues and decide what personal resources we shall all sacrifice to help resolve world conflicts.

Part of this will have to occure freely over the internet. The problem of "directed perspective" will increase as the existing internet agendas becomes more adapted to everyday life of all societies.

This brings us back full circle to whatever and whomever wishes to help solve world issues must begin by understanding terribly important existing agendas.

Trickfox

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

I followed right along with you on that little barrel roll thought process. You are right, we go right back to the fact that we have to deal with existing agendas. And theres the rub when over half of all the agendas in the world are hidden from the other agendas of the world.

I remember this suddenly and I hope that Paul does. One of the first things that Morgan said to us was "Everyone has an agenda" I don't think that Paul and I understood at the time what a complicated observation that was and how completely blind to "agendas" we generally are.

And I realize suddenly that you are right, of course, Trickfox. You can't really get anywhere until you uncover ALL of the "agendas" in any given situation. I wonder if that is even humanly possible. But if you understood on the simplest level what each interacting agenda was .... then understanding and co operation could flow from that.

Ask yourself in your everyday relationship and interactions with the people who share your life with you. What agendas do you yourself have during the day, TRUTHFULLY? Perhaps as part of the experiment you could get someone to go along with you for a certain amount of time. What would be their truthful agenda behind each move? I'll just bet, even in the simplest of human transactions the results of that little interaction in "truth in agendas" would be amazing. But all it is see is being able to spell out to each other .... this is what I NEED, and this is what I am trying to get.

Huh, Good thought. Following the excellent KISS theory here ..... (Keep it Simple Stupid.)

My thought is with all of this, if we remain unable to distill all these various agendas to something understandable we will just never end up anywhere and all of us will more resemble the beauty queens that stand up there saying that what they REALLY want is world peace.

(Case in point, properly translated might be something akin to " What I WANT is to win this pagent and I need to talk about world peace to get the popular vote and make myself look like a humanitarian to get those points. "..... and I need those points ..... because ...... There are levels of agendas beneath that .... but at least it would be a start.

Elizabeth

[ladygrady]

Paul,

The wonderful thing about your book is that there is so much history involved and so much more that you can learn by just following the leads.

I became interested in the X sub that was declared missing. Following Lindas detailed look and following the story carefully myself I have discovered a POSSIBILITY.

The first thing I noticed in reading all of this is that the "intelligence" bureaus (of whatever country you happen to pick) were already seeded with enemy agents. They might not have admitted it openly at the time but even Bletchley Park (according to Mr. Twigsnapper and others) had a "mole" that was never sucessfully uncovered. I think that Mr. Twigsnapper even used his code name .... Baron?..... can't remember ..... but according to him that fellow was never caught.

I guess we can take that as sort of a "given" then that it was understood by the security forces that they had serious leaks So, following that thought, if you wanted to have a clean and spy free operation maybe you had to go to extremes. And "losing" an entire submarine and four men .... which you perhaps had plans for later .... perhaps that was the only way it could be done. I feel for the families that were left behind, if this was the case.

And I can tell from the scene that Paul just wrote here (with Morgan being presented with a new identity and being told that he had to "fade away" from his old life,) well that just shows me that the Caroline Group was also playing by those rules. Security was a big issue with them and they knew the dangers of the world that they operated in.

So I had a guestion. ASSUMING that the X5 (thats the one that was lost and also the one where Mr. Twigsnapper has admitted to being on the "passage crew". ) ASSUMING that she was not actually lost WHERE THEN WOULD SHE HAVE BEEN PUT TO USE?

Theres a good task for some of you history buffs. Mr. O'Riley is quoted as saying that Peter Wright referred to he and his companions as the "boatmen". Maybe this is a leftover clue that we are supposed to find. What boat was Wright referring to? aha a mystery to add to your pile Paul! Always glad to help <g> grady

[Paul S.]

So I had a guestion. ASSUMING that the X5 (thats the one that was lost and also the one where Mr. Twigsnapper has admitted to being on the "passage crew". ) ASSUMING that she was not actually lost WHERE THEN WOULD SHE HAVE BEEN PUT TO USE?

That's a good question. Unfortunately, of course, if our presumption about the craft not actually being "lost" is correct, then we'll never know, will we. At least, not unless somebody who does know steps forward and tells us, and even then, how do we really know?

So it goes here in the parallel universe.

We know only from things that Mr. Twigsnapper has told us that the X-craft were involved in some of the preparations for D-Day: they put men on shore to test the soil at potential landings, and surfaced off-shore of Omaha Beach in the pre-dawn hours of of June 6, 1944 to shine a lantern out to see to direct the landing craft toward their destination.

That just gives us another idea of how the X-craft could be deployed. It's entirely possible -- but again, there's no evidence -- that similar, even more classified / secret ops were conducted in the months after the Tirpitz mission.

Mostly, I just find it interesting that we're even talking about submarines.

--PS