High voltage Generation

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

missing the point

Postby Trickfox » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:57 am

Duh.... I'm sorry. I guess I was missing the point of this whole thread.
I have never worked with this type of high voltage system. After re-reading the thread again I am beginning to think I missed out on the importance of this type of technology. I guess that comes from sticking with communication systems. I think that propulsion technology would definately require that kind of brut high voltage generations.

millions of volts with high current?

Yup, that is definately a whole new ball of wax for me!

Sorry for being such a clown about something this important.

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Postby Rocky » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:07 am

All,

This old thread seemed the best place to discuss a current high voltage application, which I feel Townsend Brown invented and hasn’t been given credit for.

If you take a careful look at the plasma field the B2 bomber uses to avoid radar detection, you will find that it appears to be generated by Townsend Browns “ 15 million volt generatorâ€
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Postby Rocky » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:21 am

All,


Sorry, I left out the photo of the three jets in formation. Here it is.

http://static.flickr.com/57/173545354_afef3b02a0_m.jpg

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Postby Chris Knight » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:41 am

That's pretty observant.

I don't think we've talked about it in the forums, but I know we've talked about it enough times elsewhere. The reduction in heat signature was one of the primary advantages to using the flame-jet generator.

If I remember correctly, the engines also ran cooler, and the fuel efficiency of the aircraft was also improved. A nice looking machine at least.

I think I read somewhere that a dielectric coating of depleted uranium was utilized on the body. Whether that's true or not is a separate issue, but the use of a dielectric coating would be an additional connection with Brown's work. It might have been in "The Anitgravity Squadron." I think Paul LaViolette wrote that, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
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Postby Rocky » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:03 am

Chris,

I don’t know about depleted uranium, but radioactive coatings to create an ionized coating to reduce radar signature has been investigated. I have also read articles, which discussed reducing surface friction using plasma shielding. So, it wouldn’t surprise me.

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Cut & Paste and...??

Postby Paul S. » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:03 pm

Rocky wrote:Sorry, I left out the photo of the three jets in formation. Here it is.

http://static.flickr.com/57/173545354_afef3b02a0_m.jpg


Rocky, I've taken the liberty of editing your original post to include the link above. That, BTW, is what the little "scissors" in the upper right corner of each post is -- an "edit" but so that you can reopen your own posts and change them. I'm a sysadmin, so I can edit everybody's posts <g>

There is no doubt but that the flame jet is a component of the B2 bomber. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to that effect, even if the authorities will not comment; and it makes perfect sense from the perspective of the Townsend Brown story itself.

But I am unconvinced as to the authenticity of these photographs, whether they are doctored "photo illustrations" as opposed to actual real-time photos. Sorry, I just know first hand how much can be done with Photoshop.

Is there any way to verify the authenticity of these photos in the Photoshop era?

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possibilities

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:31 pm

I thank you Paul for bringing up the possibilitiy of Photoshop work. I think that the photos that Rocky sent out were spectacular and probably do demonstrate what can sometimes be seen in real time but the nagging worry also hit .... "what if these are ( the old fashioned word " doctored" photos?"

Whether they are or not is really not the issue here. The issue is that all of us know that might be a possibility. Now we have to decide based on other information.If we were looking out of a cockpit in that direction would we see those effects if Townsend Browns systems were in operation? I myself have come to the conclusion that if I were sitting there .... I would be seeing that ..... so I go on with a certain acceptance of those photos ..... but I got there to that conclusion without them. Pretty though aren't they?

And I believe that it was Paul LaViolette who uncovered some of this information. Look him up folks because what he has to say is very interesting and he is a very hard working researcher.

Andrew, you said something interesting about discussions "off the forum." in your message to Rocky. Is it Rocky that you have been " bench racing " mentally with then? Or LaViolette? If so, can you share some of the thoughts that have come up?.... the ones that I can understand, of course!

And Rocky your thought here was worth noting:

"I find it a travesty of justice that the TT Brown family has not benefited from these discoveries. He should at least get an honorable mention in the Jane’s Defense or another aviation journal for his contribution"

I think that you might find that the Brown family is more interested in travestys of justice not occurring in the future. And actually it is my hope that Pauls book will be a great satisfaction to them. For my part, I think that Dr. Brown might already be pleased. Elizabeth
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sticking with the communications?

Postby grinder » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:57 pm

Trickfox,

At the top of this page you said you had missed the super high voltage situations because you were not thinking propulsion but communications.

But here is my BUT WHAT IF question .......... but since none of us seem to really know what Dr. Brown was into ( except the USAF on how to turn it to a B2 maybe) then my question is "How do you know that DR. Brown didn't need extremely high voltages HIS communication system?"

Has anyone actually built a gravitational radio outside of his sphere of influence and help? I phrase it that was because I really believe that he had such technology. And where the " flame jet generator" might have been at some point handed over to the military ( fairly obvious, even Paul says so and thats tough to get) The communication system seems to be jello on the wall. So it was mentioned over and over. So why isn't it in public use. OH I think I just answered my own question .... because its classified probably.

So , if that is the case, just how far do you guys think you will get when you try to build one for yourself? I hear the knocking on the door already. If you are lucky? grinder
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Postby Chris Knight » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:02 pm

Elizabeth,

Didn't mean to mislead you. I meant in general terms with the Brown's, and other people in general.

I was actually trying to obtain some depleted uranium for its density and dielectric properties, but was advised against it. That was earlier in my marriage before I learned that a bit of conservatism is sometimes a good thing. Too toxic of a material for my purposes in any case.

Your point is correct about the high voltages. Remember that the pure B-B Effect between two masses is dependent, in part, on the difference in charge, mass, and voltage differential, perhaps as much as the square of the voltage in the third variable.
Last edited by Chris Knight on Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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high voltage communications system?

Postby grinder » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:25 pm

So, Andrew. Run that one past me. You would NEED exceptionally high voltage for this gravitational radio?

He must have gotten around that somehow or I am misunderstanding you cause according to what Paul pointed out in Vegas .... that " set" doesn't look like it needed high voltage to operate. So, obviously I am missing a development or two. (or ten thousand probably)

But just going along with that for a moment. If at one point you needed high voltage for the communications device , could the Germans been working on that too? Could that have been one of the things that Dr. Brown was looking for in Germany?

And speaking of that. Its 1944 in your story Paul . in just a few months the war will be OVER over there (breaking into song already) So when does he leave and what the heck was he looking for anyway. And even a better question above and beyond all of that. Even if he was a volunteer for such a dangerous situation who would have been the person who " sent him". And how did he get there? He wasn't in the military at all then right. Didn't he resign in 1942? So how do you manage to get yourself on ANY kind of top secret mission.

By the way Miss Culpepper. Really interesting reading! I think that your grandfather would have been proud of your contribution.. grinder
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1944 and Beyond

Postby Paul S. » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:39 pm

grinder wrote:And speaking of that. Its 1944 in your story Paul . in just a few months the war will be OVER over there (breaking into song already) So when does he leave and what the heck was he looking for anyway. And even a better question above and beyond all of that. Even if he was a volunteer for such a dangerous situation who would have been the person who " sent him". And how did he get there? He wasn't in the military at all then right. Didn't he resign in 1942? So how do you manage to get yourself on ANY kind of top secret mission.


I am quite literally in the middle of all this material right now. And, as much as I've been looking forward to the time when I would get there, now that I'm there, it's pretty overwhelming. It's taking a lot of patience to just cull and sort through all the leads and material and try to make sense of it.

All the questions you ask, they're the good ones, I don't know if I'm going to be able to answer them all, but I'm sure gonna try.

Soon as I pick the pieces of my head up off the floor again...<g>
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Postby Chris Knight » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:12 pm

Grinder,

Well, extremely high voltages aside, I suppose the question would look something like, " Is 100,000 volts across 1 meter equivalent to 1,000 volts across 1 cm?"

I think one of the difficulties is the appearance of the unit Brown kept by his side. It looked like a shortwave radio, and the best place to hide something is right in plain sight (ever see Sneakers with Robert Redford ?).

In any case, I can't locate the picture on the site here (maybe it was in Paul's L.V. lecture), but if I remember correctly it is a picture of Townsend leaning over what look like a radio. It looks so ordinary that it makes it hard to believe it is anything special, but all you can see in the end, is the front of a plastic box with several knobs on it - nothing more.

How large would you think a high voltage power supply would need to be ? And what would your basis for comparison be ?
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Postby ETernalightwithin » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:48 pm

Chris Knight wrote:I think I read somewhere that a dielectric coating of depleted uranium was utilized on the body.


Is its dielectric value "k-value" higher than barium titanate?

Steak has a k-value of 50. Let's coat our saucers in steak :D
Last edited by ETernalightwithin on Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ETernalightwithin » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:01 pm

Chris,

Errm, toxic how? I was under the assumption that it was relatively inert. Don't they use it for armor piercing rounds? ie. uranium depleted slugs

Chris Knight wrote:I was actually trying to obtain some depleted uranium for its density and dielectric properties, but was advised against it. That was earlier in my marriage before I learned that a bit of conservatism is sometimes a good thing. Too toxic of a material for my purposes in any case.


So another way of saying this is that, mass and charge have a direct 1:1 effect and voltage has an exponential effect? x * x versus x^2

Chris Knight wrote:Remember that the pure B-B Effect between two masses is dependent, in part, on the difference in charge, mass, and voltage differential, perhaps as much as the square of the voltage in the third variable.
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DU

Postby Radomir » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:28 pm

If you google "depleted uranium dust" you'll find plenty of references to its toxicity. Sure it may be considered inert as long as it stays in one nice lump.

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