Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

Postby adminman » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:41 pm

I've just posted this article:

http://www.ttbrown.com/2006/03/lifters_and_em_.html

to the main website about something Elizabeth and I discovered over the weekend about an anomalous electromagnetic "side effect" associated with "lifter" experiments. Please discuss that topic here.

--PS
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What?

Postby Mark Culpepper » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:32 pm

The EM signal cannot be picked up? WHAT? HE HAS TO BE WRONG ON THAT.

Ventura is right on one score... something that powerful sitting there HAS TO BE PICKED UP by those instruments. So what is this? a form of stealth? Are we right back to dissappearing destroyers? I am not kidding here! Maybe the damned Eldridge did "go somewhere else! What is happening here in Venturas lab? Surely there has to be someone out there who can at least comment on this. There HAS to be an answer out there.

Mark
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Lifters and Anomalous Results

Postby Chris Knight » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:33 pm

First of all, I'd like to see these anomalous results in action before I make any comments on them. It's far to easy to make grandious statements when you don't have anyone looking over your back.

Disappearance of the Earth's magnetic field:

How was the Earth's magnetic field measured (BTW, Earth's magnetic field just doesn't disappear. The lines may shift, but I'll assume that's what Ventura meant) ? Was the proper and adequate instrument used to measure the magnetic field? Was the instrument affected by the high voltage and electrostatic field generated by the lifter? Was it grounded?

Inability to measure the EM fields of the lifter/supply:

Was the bug device used to detect bugs a proper and adequate device for measuring the EM from the lifter? Does the device measure changing EM fields or the static field from the lifter? Was the flyback shielded? Does the device measure anything if the lifter is not attached to the power supply? Was the lifter using DC or AC? If DC - pulsing or static? Was it properly grounded? He couldn't measure the 70Hz output of the monitor either during operation of the lifter - did the monitor stop working as well?

And, hello, there is no such thing as antigravity. There are only opposing gravitational fields.

I cringe when I hear the Biefeld-Brown Effect used in conjunction with the lifter "technology." The lifters are ionic devices - Brown's fans, air cleaners, etc. - designed to maximize air flow. Yes, there is a BB Effect, a gravitational aspect, but it is a tertiary effect at best. Brown had other apparatuses that optimized (to the ability of technology) the BB Effect, while minimizing the ionic wind secondary effect. I believe he considered the ionic wind a loss of power fromthe BB Effect.

The lifter is NOT a "proof of concept" for the BB Effect. It is, however, a proof of concept for the air purifier, cleaner, etc.

It just seems like such trouble to try to correct people like Ventura, and kindly explain that they've missed the whole point. Of COURSE he might notice some anomalous occurrences, the BB Effect is present, albeit at a minimal level associated with most any electromagnetic effect.

In the lifter group's favor, however, I was speaking with Elizabeth last night, and we were discussing a Canadian group looking into electrostatically-driven blimps to transport goods and supplies, at a slower, but steady, pace. Well, now that's something that might be potentially economically feasable.

Andrew
Last edited by Chris Knight on Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What?

Postby Trickfox » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:20 am

Mark Culpepper wrote:The EM signal cannot be picked up? WHAT? HE HAS TO BE WRONG ON THAT.
Mark


Ventura was not onto anything new here. I think he figured out something that was known years ago by others.

Regarding the missing EM noise from the flyback. I'll bet that I can do the same thing in front of all of you and even show you what happens to the noise floor, I think I can even explain where a lot of the math came from to do this.

I would still need a lot of help from a friend of mine to complete the math but I'm almost sure I understand how this could function now.

It's not easy for people to have to learn a whole new concept for the standard GCS definitions used by all who practice real science.

It's important to observe that gravity is a force that affects "time intervals".
Mess with gravity, and you are messing with the time interval as well.

From the observer's viewpoint, matter is defined from the observations of forces acting upon it. The scientific community in general has adopted a standard value for the time interval, w=(-1)½ which when combined with the reference for Mass as define by the proton, and and distance as defined by the Plank equation culminates into standard values for all the other forces, -which in turn were used to defined Maxwell's Electromagnetic equations, -which Einstein then independantly calculated to come up with the speed of light. Einstein based his work on the math developed by Levi-Civita called tensor arithmetics. Maxwell, Faraday, and others had observed fields of forces some of which were originally defined by Newton. bla, bla, bla, on and on and everybody's happy and in agreement with reality..... OK.

-Then EPR paradox comes along and all hell breaks loose.

Why is it so difficult to believe that something new could be developed which does not follow the rules of the 2d law of thermodynamics, specially when we are talking about an open system which is not in local thermodynamic equilibrium with it's own EM environment.

I suspect that Tom Bearden's work in this field deserves serious consideration here. Physics, thermodynamics and Maxwell's equations should be re-examined using "other methods of investigation based on other types of observations", but I don't want to go through a long long explanation most of which I don't completely grasp myself. Besides, I believe we are missing some of the last few pieces to complete a new GUF theorem, and guess what... It looks like we are not the only ones who are working on this.

I am still very much in the dark but I'd say we were getting close to something important in electro-hydrodynamics. If we just follow these strange paths where there are continued discreprancies. we will probably end up building something practical to demonstrate. I still wonder what "the glowing ball in Virginia" is for! In fact, I suspect that I allready know but I'm not foolish enough to declare it without proof. For sure I'd like to build my own version of it !

somehow I will find a way I suppose.

Trickfox
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Re: What?

Postby Paul S. » Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:54 pm

Trickfox wrote:-Then EPR paradox comes along and all hell breaks loose.


There's a lot to comment on here. For now, since Trickfox has mentioned the "EPR Paradox," I thought I'd put in a link to an explanation of that famous "thought experiment" by three famous 20th century theoretical physicists: Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox

(If I understand it correctly) the point of the "paradox" is that quantum non-locality seems to contradict the speed-of-light limitation of Special Relativity. This conclusion seems to exclude the possibility of "parallel dimensions" in which any point in the universe is actually adjacent to any other point. No need to travel at the speed of light if all you need to do is wiggle from one dimension to the next.

What did I just type??

I suspect that Tom Bearden's work in this field deserves serious consideration here.


I agree. I have only a surface grasp of Bearden's work, but something certainly resonates when I hear him say that there are fundamental flaws in the whole "Maxwellian" EM theory which is at the root of much of our theoretical physics today. It does seem that much has been left "out of the equation" though I am not enough of a scientist myself to suggest what. I'll follow Bearden's lead on this, though.

I am still very much in the dark but I'd say we were getting close to something important in electro-hydrodynamics.


Amen, brother.
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
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Bearden is almost there, but we are ahead

Postby Trickfox » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:01 pm

[quote="Paul S."] I'll follow Bearden's lead on this, though.
[quote]
No need top follow too much of his work, because we have advanced beyond it quite a bit. In fact when he sees this post he will probably react with a bit of surprise and when we start to mention papers and webliks he has never seen or contemplated which are realated to his work he may decide to chip in with a few suggestions. He is invited to comment of course however, I won't divuldge all of the intellectual property and soon enough we will bring up weird and complex issues such as Shannon laws and information theory. Thta's when things start to get complex and missunderstood. Patience will be neede to understand the complexities.

Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
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Patience, Patience, patience

Postby Victoria Steele » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:47 pm

Trickfox , Paul , all other interested researchers

All I can say is , in regard to the previous couple of messages.1.) How very interesting and 2.) Those of us out here who are true researchers have nothing but patience. Miles and miles of patience for understanding "complexities" And the longer we are in this "pool" the less afraid of water we are.

Yes, lets hear from Tom Bearden. This is right up your alleyway, unless you thought that you were there by yourself? Give us a holler?

Virginia huh? Well ... their motto is "Virginia is for lovers" Perhaps that would work for the romantic in me. Victoria
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Lifter Groups and Electrohydrodynamics

Postby Chris Knight » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:07 am

All,

Perhaps I was a bit hard on Mr. Ventura and the lifter groups. They are having a lot of fun, and advancing the area of electrohydrodynamics as well, so I can't fault them on that.

I just want to make sure that these things follow the scientific method of reproducibility and methodology before making earth-shattering statements.

A few years ago I and mark Bean of Vuirtual Theater had the priviledge (?) of working with John Hutchinson and his eternal batteries. As soon as I hooked one up to a volt/amp meter, I could see that it was a combination of piezoelectric and electret material.

Mr. Hutchinson had bilked many gullible people out of large amounts of money, and I hate to see people making any kind of financial or power/standing gains off of that type of behavior. In Mr. Ventura's favor, I will just assume that he is unaware of the scientific processes required to study unknown effects.

Andrew
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response ..... Ouch

Postby Victoria Steele » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:37 am

Andrew,

I thought that I was going to be the only one here throwing down the gauntlet and half insulting people while I was doing it! OUCH!

But I AGREE with every word that you have said. If it insults anyone, let them come forward ... they can chew both of us out while they are at it. But at least they will stand up and be counted!

Which is more than I can say for some of the people who have put their two cents up in the past and then dragged their dollars to the bank after the sale of their ideas or their half- baked books to the public.

I am still wondering where Mr. Moore is? And Mr. Vassilatos? No response at all from them Paul?

You mentioned Mark Bean. I met Mark for a few moments at a UFO convention in Laughlin years ago and was impressed with his demonstration of one of Dr. (don't cringe Paul, its intentional) Browns rotating discs .... The concept I think went over the heads of most there, it didn't have the flash and the brilliance of the Tesla coil demonstration that Mr. Bean had shown off a little earlier ..... the little flying saucers that were tethered to a sort of "maypole" just silently whirled around and around and I thought ......"What the Bleep !?".... to borrow a term .... and then I do remember one thing that I found striking. Mark Bean in talking about Tesla said, of course, that Teslas work was responsible for nearly every device that we are comfortable with and take for granted now ...... BUT then he said that he felt Townsend Brown would someday be as much or more of an influence on the world as Tesla was. I took that as extraordinarily high praise. Anyway, after that demonstration I decided to start following the work of Townsend Brown .... so here I am.

Say hello to Mr. Bean for me. Tell him I was very impressed. Victoria
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Mark Bean and Anomalous Results

Postby Chris Knight » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:10 am

Victoria,

Not to get off the subject too far, but Mark is recovering from knee surgery, which will be followed bysurgery for a torn rotator cuff once he is off crutches, and then an operation on his back. After that he will be back in the game.

Mark is one of the best shop guys I know - a real-life MacGyver, and we actually met through soteria.com. He's also a good friend. I used to go to the meetings with him, and watch the show, help him set up/down, etc. Anyhow, if I need something special designed, he usually does it.

In any case, he's one of us. Once we get him back on track, I'll get him involved. He lives in Las Vegas and can spot a phony a mile away, and we have the greatest conversations about what's going on in the field.

We bought one of those Testor sportster models (UFO) that were being promoted by Bob Lazar, painted it with conducting paint, and hooked it up to one of his Van de Graff generators (HV DC negative). You know that electricity follows the path of least resistance, but interestingly enough, the arcs between a grounding electrode positioned above the model and the model tended to follow a curved path from the electrode to the underside of the model rather than directly down to the top of the model. It was definitely an anomalous result...

Andrew
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The Call & Tesla/Brown

Postby Paul S. » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:19 am

Victoria Steele wrote:....Teslas work was responsible for nearly every device that we are comfortable with and take for granted now ...... BUT then he said that he felt Townsend Brown would someday be as much or more of an influence on the world as Tesla was. I took that as extraordinarily high praise. Anyway, after that demonstration I decided to start following the work of Townsend Brown .... so here I am.


Well Victoria, thanks for clearing up that little mystery. I'm always fascinated by what brings people to this material (you know, anonymous e-mails in the middle of the night, things like that). We all seem to have our own way of responding to the call..

It was also helpful to be reminded of Mark Beans assessment of M/Dr Brown's work. In fact, I was just looking at some material today from the "early NRL" period (1932/33) that seems to corroborate Mark's assessment, and when I first worked with the material a few months ago I came to a similar conclusion vis-a-vis Tesla/Brown. Now that I see that the topic is open, I'll have to go back and make sure I've presented it soundly before I post it to the website (probably next week's chapter or the week after).

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
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responding to the call

Postby Victoria Steele » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:55 am

Now THAT is a very good question for this forum. "What was it that prompted you to get involved and interested in the life and work of Townsend Brown?"

I'll just bet that you will have as many answers as people responding. But that indeed would be a great topic for discussion!

Paul ? What do you say?I have already sort of told my story , But I would REALLY like to hear from our other visiting readers. The stories will probably range from " I just stumbled into this topic" (right, we old-timers nod and wink ... uttering the deep Bill Cosby RIIGHHT) to "I have been working in this field all my life, ever since the day "

...... and while we are all investigating this .... perhaps we can investigate just exactly WHY there is this not so random interest developing in Townsend Browns work. Or maybe its just me that feels this ... energy? Could be. I have been known to be caught outside of the box at times! Victoria
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Why are we interested in T.T.Brown

Postby Ernest Fields » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:23 pm

I am throughly fasinated by this field of energy related studies.
My brother wanted me to invest in Photovoltiacs, so I started checking out the process and discovered Electronics and energy generation. Don't like the efficiencies of photovoltiacs 2-3% is not good, 18-25% is a lot better with some of the newer versions.
As a product designer in the 60's,70's and involved with designing components for the lunar lander and fighter aircraft . Space flight would be incredible. If it could be possible using the Biefield-Brown Effect it would make me personally very happy. :D
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welcome

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:30 pm

Ernest,

Welcome! Your comments and observations will be greatly appreciated. Seeing Townsend Browns work (and others in this field) would make us all very pleased. Good to have your company. Elizabeth
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Postby Trickfox » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:43 pm

Yes indeed.
Welcome Ernie, join the pool party, and be sure and read over the technical journals on the sister site http://www.soteria.com I'm sure you will be rewarded with the knowledge that the Brown familly is sharing with the world. Let us know about your experiences, and your dreams or visions. We are all very interested in everything or anything on your mind.

Trickfox
The psychopropulsier (as pointed out in the book The Good-bye man by Linda Brown and Jan Lofton) is a Quantum entanglement project under development using Quantum Junctions. Join us at http://www.Peeteelab.com
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