Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Re: Under pressure

Postby Langley » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:07 am

Griffin wrote:Langley-

You also wrote:
“Why August 1941 A Ha. The Poms landed in the US and told the S1 committee to pull its finger out.”

Are you referring to the American-British agreement which Sir William Stephenson helped broker, with some quid pro quo technology disclosures including radar information?

As ever,

Griffin


Yea, in a very closely related way. Mark Oliphant was sent to the US from the British government in August 1941. His cover was his radar work. His actual purpose was to goad, convince, persuade or drag the Americans into working on the fission bomb. The British report written to inform the US of the opinions based upon the science of the European refugees then still in England was that the Germans were making progress on the bomb. And that the Allies had better start making one. It described the means to do that. It was siting unread in the safe of the chairman of the S1 (Uranium) Committee. Shortly thereafter the committee basically became the Manhattan Project. EO Lawrence was on the committee. His medical work at his cyclotron (under John Lawrence) rapidly transformed into weapons work.

Ive found an excellent disccussion of "Born Secret" as a legal concept.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/cardozo.pdf

"However, by August 1, 1946, when the Atomic Energy Act reached President Truman for signature, the new second purpose was “(2) A program for the control of scientific and technical information . . .,” 3 and Section 9 was gone, replaced by a new Section 10, “Control of Information.” This new section contained the novel doctrine later described as “born secret.” Slightly modified in 1954, it is still in force today. When the Atomic Energy Act became law, it defined a new legal term “restricted data” as “all data concerning the manufacture or utilization of atomic weapons, the production of fissionable material, or the use of fissionable material in the production of power,” unless the information has been declassified. The phrase “all data” included every suggestion, speculation, scenario, or rumor—past, present, or future, regardless of its source, or even of its accuracy—unless it was declassified. All such data were born secret and belonged to the government. If you related a dream about nuclear weapons, you were breaking the law"

At this point we have to ask ourselves "What is an atomic weapon". An atomic weapon defines itself by its effects. It produces ionisation at distance via radiation (as well as blast, heat, etc)

Well, if ionisation is the thing that defines the weapon and its radiaiton then how hard would be to extent the legal constraints to the work of TT Brown and to the legally enforcible gag requirements to him and all who had an inkling of what he did? I submit, not hard at all. In fact it fits like a glove.

I figure an application of Brown's work is incorporated in the radiation pressure component of the H bomb. And before that, possibly in the electromagnetic uranium separation as used by Lawrence. Concepts and applications less than that invovke "Born Secret". Ionisation is electrostatics. Brown's work, whoever said it first, is hidden beneath the security cloak of the atomic bomb. And he might have been free to pursue his research so long as he didnt relate to any unauthorised person. And seeing as he was an originator, the stuff he dreamed up was Born Secret even before he wrote it down. Any whiff of what he was doing not just created a an ordinary security risk, it placed him at risk as originator. For his activity is the first relating - hence his moving about - research interuptus, discontinuity, impossible to follow, a deliberate failure to communicate. Anyhow sorry to be a thread hog. Im done now. I think I see. If someone unauthorised got wind of his doings, he was potentially in very hot water.

"it is still in force today" Gulp. What the weather like in Cuba at the moment?....
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Re: Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

Postby Victoria Steele » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:55 pm

PAUL. ARE YOU APYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT LANGLEY IS SAYING HERE? THESE ARE IMPORTANT OBSERVATIONS IN MY OPINION. SO I AM THROWING RED FLAGS DOWN. A FLURREY OF RED FLAGS AND SHOUTING TOO. PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THESE WORDS.

"Brown's work, whoever said it first, is hidden beneath the security cloak of the atomic bomb. And he might have been free to pursue his research so long as he didnt relate to any unauthorised person. And seeing as he was an originator, the stuff he dreamed up was Born Secret even before he wrote it down. Any whiff of what he was doing not just created a an ordinary security risk, it placed him at risk as originator. For his activity is the first relating - hence his moving about - research interuptus, discontinuity, impossible to follow, a deliberate failure to communicate. Anyhow sorry to be a thread hog. Im done now. I think I see. If someone unauthorised got wind of his doings, he was potentially in very hot water">

And of course the link to Stephenson should be noted also. Thanks so much Langley. I never say enough about the good stuff you come up with! Victoria
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Re: Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

Postby Paul S. » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:41 pm

Victoria Steele wrote:PAUL. ARE YOU PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT LANGLEY IS SAYING HERE?


I am now.

I've always thought Paul Langley has an interesting perspective on this business.

Beyond that... (too?) much to chew on, as Morgan might say...

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
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...like a glove

Postby Griffin » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:42 pm

Langley-

Hot.

YOU WROTE:
At this point we have to ask ourselves "What is an atomic weapon". An atomic weapon defines itself by its effects. It produces ionisation at distance via radiation (as well as blast, heat, etc)

Well, if ionisation is the thing that defines the weapon and its radiation then how hard would be to extent the legal constraints to the work of TT Brown and to the legally enforcible gag requirements to him and all who had an inkling of what he did? I submit, not hard at all. In fact it fits like a glove.

MY COMMENT:
I agree -- not hard at all. Yes, a tight-fitting glove that both protects and constrains. This helps explain why Townsend Brown, already 75 years old when I met him, was still obviously concerned about security secrets related to some matters that had happened long ago. While he could confirm some things for me, he would not divulge his direct involvement or other details involving certain topics I brought up. Not only was he still involved in research, but he must have been constrained by matters “born secret” which never die -- such as you indicate. That something had occurred more than 30 years before, at the time, did not matter. Even though almost 60 years have now elapsed, it probably still doesn’t. This would also apply to other matters discussed here on the Flow Forum as well. However, enough has now come out into the light so that we can begin to see the lay of the land. Good job of turning the light up a notch.

As ever, envisioning a Brown-Green global technology,

Griffin
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Re: Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

Postby AM2 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:32 am

DELETED
Last edited by AM2 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ...like a glove

Postby Langley » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:41 am

Griffin wrote:Langley-

Hot.

MY COMMENT:
I agree -- not hard at all. Yes, a tight-fitting glove that both protects and constrains. This helps explain why Townsend Brown, already 75 years old when I met him, was still obviously concerned about security secrets related to some matters that had happened long ago. While he could confirm some things for me, he would not divulge his direct involvement or other details involving certain topics I brought up. Not only was he still involved in research, but he must have been constrained by matters “born secret” which never die -- such as you indicate. ,,,
Griffin


Its just that knowing the Australian nuclear veterans (not really closely 'cause of distance) they had and have the same trouble. The security regime is different in that its all Official Top Secret, so they couldnt for a long time speak about their illneses. TV stations would suffer power outages etc.before an interview. Journos would get hassled. Phone calls in the dead of night. Then the government here said OK you can speak about that or this.

It just helps me understand Paul's book. The nuclear veterans in America and UK would have the same deal. There's KW in Oregon. Portland. Chris Busby in UK dealing with an aspect. Same deal for Doctor Brown. Different setting and agenda. But same constraints and unspoken rules. Maybe it will change if common knowledge takes lead over the shy "authorised voices" who are supposed to speak first, thus allowing others to speak. Of course, they might have already spoken and we might not have understood. Because they are limited in what is to be spoken at the times chosen. Least I dont get dizzy thinking about it if that's the case.
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Re: Lifters and ElectroMagnetic "Anomalies"

Postby Langley » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:51 am

AM2 wrote:Hello Mr. Langley!

Do you remember our discussion regarding Rolf Wideroe and the infancy of particle accelerators?

What do you say about plasma accelerators? I. e. "A new method of particle acceleration in which the particles 'surf' on a wave of plasma promises to unleash a wealth of applications."

http://www.nikhef.nl/pub/services/bibli ... 368629.pdf

AM

Hi Am, I see no difference between the principle of what Lawrence was doing when he separated the uranium isotopes - his machine created uranium ions and accelerated them in a plasma flow. The caultron was a particle accelerator. I see not difference in what Brown was doing when he used the fan to move are via ion movement. He was accelerating particles. Tellers H bomb used plasma flow to create radiation pressure. The cesium ion thing is accelerated particles. The B2 bomber uses accelerated particles. Particle accelerators may take many forms and the focus of the research may vary but the principle is the same. Its the same body of knowledge essentially. The Biefeld Brown effect though seems independent of ion movement and is separate from it. Though ions may mediate it when they are present.
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