The Final Experiment

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

The Final Experiment

Postby aklyon » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:14 am

Hey guys,

I've designed an experiment, and I'd like someone who's familiar with the actual science to tell me whether or not it would prove anything:
a cellular gravitator using a ceramic as the insulator, then coated with a thick layer of ceramic insulator (to rule out the possibility of ionic wind), then, not suspended, but fixed in place and connected to some sort of sensor or spring-device to measure the generated force...for voltage a Marx generator, or possibly a couple of those metal cans you see on telephone poles--can't ramamber what they're called. transformers? whatever. anyway, I basically need to know if the insulating coat over the gravitator would actually eliminate the effects of ion wind.

I visualized this after I was sent a NASA paper on a study they did with the whole concept--by a world-renouned (sorta) physicist and personal aqquaintance.

What they did wrong, however, was use *ahem* 50 kV in a chamber with decreasing air pressure, then ruled out the possibility of gravitational effects. Obviously, the voltage was many times too low, and we don't need to know about atmospheric effects. So. ehh...I'm done rambling.
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Would this experiment work ?

Postby Chris Knight » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:37 pm

Aklyon,

Would this experiment work. Yes and no. The information that follows is contained in documents located at www.soteria.com and the chapterettes at www.ttbrown.com.

A cellular "gravitor" is basically a simple capacitor. Grab a textbook on electronics at a library or college bookstore and become very familiar with the capacitor section - configuration, different dielectrics, etc. Make sure you are going in the right direction before jumping.

The force on the Townsend's gravitors was coupled to the capacitance (ability to store charge), i.e. the greater the capacitance, the greater the effect. The capacitance is linked to the area of the plates (electrodes), distance between the plates, dielectric constant of the plates, etc. You're using a ceramic as the insulator. OK, what are the characteristics? Is it floor tile or something else? Have you considered mica or mylar or some other dielectric that might be available in thinner thicknesses and higher dielectric strengths (voltage breakdown)?

Could you fix it in place to a spring or sensor. Sure, why not?

Will a ceramic insulator coating eliminate the ionic wind. Sure, although I might suggest instead a high voltage varnish from a TV shop, electronics store, etc. It would be easier to work with. You could even enclose it in canning paraffin. However, you will still be encountering leakage current through the ceramic plates, which increases with the applied voltage, so make sure you have at least a 1 mA supply to counteract it.

On that note, I agree. I wouldn't use 50KV for much more than a plasma globe. Since your setup will most likely be crude compared to a final product (remember what the first transistor looked like?), you will need more voltage to show any effect.

Public utility transformers and Marx generators require a certain amount of care and expertise to operate. However, high voltages are a _lot_ of fun to work with, and the trouble to develop that expertise is well worth the time. The disclaimer is that please, please, please be careful with high voltages.

Good Luck.
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Postby aklyon » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:20 am

Hey,

Thanks for the advice. I recently enlisted the aid of the science director at a nearby high school who has experience with this electronics, if not HV. He'll be able to help me in my endeavour. As for ceramics, I'm not actually sure what the properties are, but that was what occurred to me at the moment of inception. I'm no electronics expert, I'll give you that, but I've taken an intro course and am in the process of taking digital electronics... As for the dielectric, I wonder if quartz would be any good? I know it has unique properties, but I also know it's hard to work with, expensive, and there's probably something better suited to my purposes?

Anyway, I wonder if there is any way to completely prevent magnetic leakage? After all, the idea is to completely rule out the possibility of ion thrust. Um, anyway, your advice is appreciated, and I will certainly read those articles.

Andrew

John 14:27
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Avoiding magnetic leakage

Postby Chris Knight » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:18 am

Well, ion leakage and magnetic leakage are separate entities. Insulating your unit will eliminate the external ion wind, while enclosing the unit in a magnetically permeable material such as iron will capture any stray electromagnetic fields, depending on the strength of the field, permeability of the material, cross-section of the material, etc. However, if you eliminate the ion wind by insulating the unit, you shouldn't have to worry about the magnetic field.

You might consider looking at Brown's documents at www.soteria.com and the Chapter 13 comments at www.ttbrown.com. One of the best ways to start would to get a good understanding of his units, maybe build one, any then strike out on your own (and yes, he was interested in ceramic dielectrics for his units).

The simplest model, which I discuss in the Chapter 13 comments, was basically a plastic box with electrodes at both ends and filled with litharge, which is a mixture of lead oxide and glycerin - both may be available at a clay suppy store. The second type was his cellular unit, which was lead sheets (plates) separated by mica or paper dielectric.

Quartz (silica), which is SiO2 is a good possibility. Brown noticed higher petrovoltaic outputs in units with silica cores. Again, it's very cheap to pick up silica powder at a clay supply store. I buy most of my supplies at www.aardvarkclay.com.
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Postby Jon de Pinet » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:03 pm

any attempt to insulate ionic leakage will require at least 1 cm thickness of insulation.

and more for higher voltages.


however, insulating the ionic effects seems unessisary, they will be negligable.

just make sure you have a good dielectric (it will tend to inulate the system all by its self) and watch your self around your power source. high voltage smarts!


your utility transformers will only give you about 20Kv AC, pretty much not what you want. you want a Marx Generator ranged at 100-500Kv and running at about 70 Hz (pulsating) DC.

good luck.
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Postby Ernest Fields » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:48 am

In one of TT Brown's journals he stated that a leaky dielectric was good. I believe it was in the area the one where he described the thruster with the conical portion with various types of heavy particles graduated to the point.
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Leakage current

Postby Chris Knight » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:03 am

Ernest,

Good eye. In another example, Brown found that a small leakage current was necessary for the oil pump. When the oil was insulated from the alternating electrodes by glass, there was minimal movement of the oil, if any.

Andrew
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Postby Ernest Fields » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:49 am

The source of the leaky dielectric was Journal #2 page 120,p111. It is this leaky current that causes the gravitational vector to appear within the dielectric. On p111 He talks about gravitational storage coincides with the electrical storage of the capacitor.
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Postby Ernest Fields » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:57 am

Mr. Brown talks about the effects of "K" and "mu" storage as having an effect on C speed of light and that if the se storage fields were between us and a star or galaxy it would cause the appearance of speeding away due to the slow down of light "RED SHIFT" wouldn't this throw a monkey wrench into the Physic's mess and Einstein's Realativity
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