WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Mark Culpepper » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:22 pm

Mr, Twigsnapper and Bill,

I am going through the process many will know when faced with information that they have sort of a hot response for.... its best to buy time and just repeat .... as in " Lets see if I understood what you actually said. So in that light I go forward.

TED GUNDERSON AND MICHAEL RICONOCIUTO AND THE "PINEAPPLE BOMB" THAT ALLEGEDLY TOOK DOWN OKLAHOMA CITY'S MURRAH BUILDING. Allegedly ... can we throw that out and leave room for something else?

And this is Lavas?
"While in Las Vegas filming Gunder-son, we got more details about this super bomb from a former CIA operative who understood how it worked and knew where it had been used in the past. He had only high praises for its inventor, Michael Riconosciuto, and lamented the fact that Michael had been "railroaded into prison to shut him up," and referring to the former child prodigy as "by far, the smartest man I ever met."

And if that is a solid quote then all we have to do is ask Raymond Lavas if this is a true rendition of what he said. ( Only if you are feeling good enough trickfox)

Lets just go one step at a time. MarkC
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Trickfox » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:44 am

Yes I was there and I was questioned by an explosive expert called "Sherrow' (working on Behalf of Soldier of Fortune magazine) . The technical arguments between Sherrow and myslf was over the use of Aliminum silicate in the construction of the device. The explosive power of the device was known to surpass the Chapman-Juge detonation velocity. This is an issue that made Sherrow totally incredulous to the point of laughing at me. It would have labelled our device A-neutronic in Design. I refused to elabotrate the actual technicalities partially because I did not hold in my possession any engineering data necesary for preparing the elaborate design. Later on I did meet with Dr. Sam Cohen, the father of the neutron bomb. He was a wonderful individual who encouraged me to distance myself from all this type of work and become more humanitarian. Although I do know the secrets behind such devices, I willl never work in this type of project again.

Thr cooling Probe used on Bragg cell chanalizers presents a much more useful apppication of this high voltage control technology. There are several dozen novel applications planned but the most important to me personally is the possibility of temporarilly reversing the second laws of thermodynamics to cause a truely strange time manipulation process. I call it "looping the singularity".

keep up the faith, all of you. There are more revelations to come, and some of us who have remained hidden had a very good reason to be that way. Now, I will have to move around again and i think the caroline group is keeping me safe for the immediate moment.

I still have a lot of hope that Qualight environmental will be succssfull and perhaps I can be of assistance in some future endeavors.

Trickfox
Last edited by Trickfox on Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Rose » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:04 am

i just posted this quote on the People thread. i would not have done it had I known that you were indeed the mentioned forensics expert...I think of you as a genius of a different stripe

Tony Patterson and Raymond Lavas (Ted Gunderson's former forensics expert) through Bobby Riconosciuto. Tony Patterson had allegedly served with Robert Booth Nichols in Vietnam, and Raymond Lavas had access to Michael Riconosciuto's hidden computer tapes.

Sending you a big hug and kiss for your decision to distance yourself from the destructive side of the work, Tricksie. I hope you are feeling well again.

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:03 am

twigsnapper wrote:No Bill, you have jumped way beyond. Nothing here proves anything. And this is how real information gets lost in the shuffle. So many imagined facts are thrown against the wall and its so much fun to watch the process that the things you actually need to see remain there untouched. Back up a bit.

The disinformation experts in this type of thing don't have to come up with anything creative really. All they need to do is get the ball rolling just a bit by an aside comment and overjealous readers take it from there. Please back up just a bit because you are doing yourself a disservice here.

Don't be afraid to throw out some of that bathwater. The baby will stay. twigsnapper

Sorry, Mr. Twigsnapper.
Thought that was the path you wanted us to look down.
I was especially impressed with the Electro-Hydrodynamic Gaseous Fuel Device or the Barometric bomb. Now Raymond, you were involved in the development of that device? I am impressed (and don't want to get on your bad side!)! Mostly electrostatics is a nuisance and you used it to do work.

As the scientists already know but non-scientists may not is that the finer the drop or particle and the better dispersed in the air, the better the combustion if the drop or particle is a fuel. Ever see a flour explosion? I've seen the aftermath in pictures.

Now before I ran too far, we were talking about plasmoids. This reminds me of Farnworth's fusor which uses electrostatics to "steer" the ions in containment. The antenna on that UFO reminds me of Tesla's antenna which was reported to be hollow inside. It is reported that Tesla used a mercury filled evacuated tube as part of his antenna array...

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Trickfox » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:40 am

the barometric bomb is probably a myth.

I have never seen one function.


take that as the "truth as I know it to be".

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby kevin.b » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 am

Trickfox,
I have worked at many places, on many things, including nuclear power stations and very strange places near Harrogate.
I was young and eager to learn and do my best, be the best, with what I know now, perhaps I would have not worked at such places, on such things.
If I now know different things, do I hide away and allow other younger ones to make the same mistakes I have made?
Or do I stand up , with no fear , and face whatever?
I have always known certain things about You, and known one day it will be my honour to meet You and look You straight in the eyes, friend and true.
This THUNDERBOLT needs looking into, inho, VAJRA (Wheres am2?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje
Held in the right hand is this MALE device, held in the left hand is the BELL female device, induce lots of female, and watch the male be attracted in abundance.
If you have a device that can direct the female in advance, watch the male chase after the female.
If the male is dominant, and pushes down on top of the female, you will be pinned down, but send the female up above you , and watch the male push up to catch the female.
BUT, if you do, beware those that will utilise this to dissolve apart the bond between male and female, NO-THING is the result?
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:21 pm

htmagic wrote:This just proves it's an inside job like 911. The thermate used in the Twin Towers and the pools of molten steel days after the towers came down proved it wasn't jet fuel. MagicBill


Could you please give a link that shows the proof of your statement above?

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:12 pm

natecull wrote:See, but be careful there. I'm painting what I think is a plausible scenario, but I'm a sci-fi fan - I do this sort of thing in my sleep, for *fun*. I *love* looking for shadows to hide alternate histories in, because gee-whiz toys are cool. Doesn't mean they really exist or that the USAF *has* that capacity. I just really, really want these things to exist. Maybe too much.



Nate,

I have been very hard on you in the past for your interpretations of physics and I do so, not just to you but to everyone on this forum, so that for the future record we will not be condemmed for "poor sicence". There is such a diverse group here. Diversity in the gene pool creates a stronger breed so too in this forum.

You have shown yourself to be very adept at research, sometimes quite long posts so I must admit to having to resort to scanning due to time limitations but revealing posts none the less. I give you kudos.

As for you being a sci-fi fan, well, welcome to the club. It is that capacity to enjoy that genre that indicates that you have an imagination which is a prerequisite to build "gee whiz toys". Don't ever be embarrassed or anything else for having that capacity. Forgive me this little story. If you have read any of the forum than you might be aware that I have partial amnesia from cardiac arrest that was induced from the efforts of resuscitation. When I first came to this forum I believed that I had never heard of T. Townsend Brown. Well, I had a conversation with someone on Saturday in that vein and this morning I remember a conversation with a physicist I had back in the late 70's or so, a memory retrieved. The conversation was in regard to my work with a disc and the results I was achieving. His response to me was that what I had was already done by a Townsend Brown and he went on to explain it away as "ion wind", somehow I didn't quite believe him, I remember asking him how could I get ahold of this "Townsend Brown" and his response to me was something like him being a crazy old recluse living his life away in obscurity...yeah, right. In any event, that was probably misinformation but the physicist's name was Robert Forward who you might know. Check him out and see who he worked for and what he worked on.

And let me tell you this, I too, " just really, really want these things to exist."

Mikado
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:41 pm

Mikado14 wrote:
htmagic wrote:This just proves it's an inside job like 911. The thermate used in the Twin Towers and the pools of molten steel days after the towers came down proved it wasn't jet fuel. MagicBill


Could you please give a link that shows the proof of your statement above?

Mikado

Mikado,

Here's a place that talks about thermate residue found at the Twin Towers. Thermate is thermite with sulfur added for an even more energetic reaction. Google this and you'll get a bunch of hits.
http://www.ae911truth.org/twintowers.php
http://www.zeitenschrift.net/news/sne-12207-911.ihtml
http://www.ae911truth.org/
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/341238.shtml

And one of these buildings went down less that 20 minutes after being hit. The bombing in 1993 at the Twin Towers burned longer (and at the foundation of the building).

As for the Pentagon, there are many sites that discuss this but check out the CNN footage during the event.
It looks like no plane crash I've seen and the wings would have surely sheared off one the plane hit the reinforced concrete structure.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/Cnn%5B1%5D.Pentagon.Jamie.Mcintyre.swf

And at the Twin Towers site, there were puddles of molten steel that were red hot for days. Never saw JP-4 to cause anything like that, especially causing Building 7 to drop like the Twin Towers, although no plane hit it.

As Robot B-9 in Lost in Space would say: DOES NOT COMPUTE!

MagicBill
P.S. Mikado, thanks for the education on the chart. RLC values for sure. But that requires someone to set a frequency. Do we have a frequency?
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Radomir » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:45 am

twigsnapper wrote:Only suggestion I might have is to look at that information, which was for the general public, and look upon it with " forum eyes".

I myself noticed this little thing.

"Gravity has frequency... but that is another discussion all unto itself. Another discussion will detail the process for generating and storing extremely high voltage power in the form of plasmoids... (or self-containing plasmas),"

I challenge the rest of you to rip into this piece looking for things that " vibrate" to an understanding level with you. Even if it just " feels goosebumpy". twigsnapper


Now I think we've raised this issue of gravity having frequency before, and in discussion of Deyo's site, if memory serves (when our attention was drawn primarily to http://au.geocities.com/psyberplasmic/ccS1-2.html). It was as intriguing then as it is now to contemplate. I think we also related it to the Rainbow / spectrum metaphor that is now shot through many of our discussions in different forms.

What would the colors of gravity look like? More to the point, what would be the causes or effects of gravity frequency variation? Does it vary naturally due to factors of mass and volume? Or by proximity to such? By location or neighborhood of temporal space? In what ways would its effects differ, by frequency? And of course, how might one artificially vary the frequency of gravity and to what effects?

Though I thought I had scanned through the Deyo site pretty thoroughly the last time, thanks for pointing this out as I think this is the first time I've seen the concept of STORING high voltage in plasmoids--so far we've been covering the possible causes of the generation of such, its behaviors in the natural world, the appearance of surprising plasmoids as secondary effects, and some WWII sky-high ocurrances that may be related. Even this Deyo page http://au.geocities.com/psyberplasmic/ccX-6.html seems to vary between presenting the attitude-controlling plasmoid as a cause, or even an effect, but not really as storage unit for energy. Perhaps he means storage in plasmoids other than those outlined in his description of the craft.

If that is the case, then what is the difference, if any, between storing high voltage in plasmoids, and generating, confining and tapping an ongoing energy-bearing plasmoid in a fusor (as mentioned by others in the thread above)? We're not clear how one could otherwise generate a plasmoid such that it would persist, much less how one would "tap" into the plasmoid later. How long a duration of high voltage storage are we talking about, hours, weeks, Or are we talking about microseconds of "storage" time as part of another process?

As for your challenge, this is one part that grabbed me:
Since the crew and the entire craft are part of the circuit, whenever a direction change is made every molecule of the entire polarized (unified) field is accelerated at such a high rate of change into the new vector that the change appear, uniform, thus bypassing the problem of structural fatigue due to non-uniform inertial shifts. This means that the crew could be having morning tea break and the pilot could turn a corner at 25,000 mph without spilling a drop of tea.


And here, while I find the first part interesting and potentially plausible, the latter part seems outrageous in the assertion that "radio" waves might be received by the human mind...
Communication to external sources can be effected in a number of ways; however, the most impressive is that one which modulates the field strength of the plasmoid with voice patterns. The broadcast covers a great number of radio frequencies simultaneously. In such cases 'receivers' can be the human mind all by itself.


R.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby natecull » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:43 am

Mikado14 wrote:When I first came to this forum I believed that I had never heard of T. Townsend Brown. Well, I had a conversation with someone on Saturday in that vein and this morning I remember a conversation with a physicist I had back in the late 70's or so, a memory retrieved. The conversation was in regard to my work with a disc and the results I was achieving. His response to me was that what I had was already done by a Townsend Brown and he went on to explain it away as "ion wind", somehow I didn't quite believe him, I remember asking him how could I get ahold of this "Townsend Brown" and his response to me was something like him being a crazy old recluse living his life away in obscurity...yeah, right. In any event, that was probably misinformation but the physicist's name was Robert Forward who you might know. Check him out and see who he worked for and what he worked on.


Thanks for this tidbit! I've heard of Forward's name (great name) in the SF and hard science context (and possibly in the context of UFOs), but now I'm getting 'forum eyes':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Forward

He earned his doctorate from the University of Maryland in 1965, for the development of a bar antenna for the detection of gravitational radiation. He then went to work at the research labs of Hughes Aircraft, where he continued his research on gravity measurement and received 18 patents. He took early retirement in 1987, to focus on his fiction writing and consulting for such clients as NASA and the U.S. Air Force. In 1994, he co-founded the company Tethers Unlimited, Inc. with Robert P. Hoyt, where he served as Chief Scientist and Chairman until 2002.


Dr Forward's extensive work in the field of gravitational radiation detection included the invention of the rotating cruciform gravity gradiometer or 'Forward Mass Detector', for Lunar Mascon (mass concentration) measurements. Misner, Wheeler & Thorne ( Gravitation ISBN 0-7167-0344-0 ) point out that it can detect the curvature of spacetime produced by a fist. The principle behind it is quite simple - getting the implementation right is tricky. Essentially, two beams are crossed over and connected with an axle through their crossing point. They are held at right angles to each other by springs. They have heavy masses at the ends of the beams, and the whole assembly spun around the common axle at high speed. The angle between the beams is measured continuously, and if it varies with a period half that of the rotation period, it means that the detector is experiencing a measurable gravitational field gradient.


* Future Magic (1988)
Future Magic discusses possible future applications of Skyhooks and gravitational rings amongst other technologies, including a plan by Hughes aircraft for a potential flying saucer.


http://www.amazon.com/Future-Magic-Robe ... 06&sr=8-12

'Gravitational rings'? Wonder what that Hughes project was?

I didn't realise gravity detection was so advanced, but I guess they had to map the lunar masscons with something. I suppose I was thinking of satellites with plumb bobs and very accurate clocks.

I wonder if he did have anything to do with Brown or not... his interests would seem to coincide. Intriguing.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:11 am

natecull wrote:Thanks for this tidbit! I've heard of Forward's name (great name) in the SF and hard science context (and possibly in the context of UFOs), but now I'm getting 'forum eyes':

<SNIP>

I wonder if he did have anything to do with Brown or not... his interests would seem to coincide. Intriguing.

Nate,

Remember in the 1970s there was no Internet and even the military version wasn't around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET wrote:The first permanent ARPANET link was established on November 21, 1969, between the IMP at UCLA and the IMP at SRI. By December 5, 1969, the entire 4-node network was connected.


So unless Robert Forward was on the ARPANET and so was Dr. Brown (as we've seen SRI and UCLA before) or he bumped into him during Dr. Brown's travels, we might never know. But your link to Robert Forward was interesting because of his patent for statite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statite wrote:A statite (a portmanteau of static and satellite) is a hypothetical type of artificial satellite that employs a solar sail to continuously modify its orbit in ways that gravity alone would not allow. Typically, a statite would use the solar sail to "hover" in a location that would not otherwise be available as a stable geosynchronous orbit. Statites have been proposed that would remain in fixed locations high over Earth's poles, using reflected sunlight to counteract the gravity pulling them down. Statites might also employ their sails to change the shape or velocity of more conventional orbits, depending upon the purpose of the particular statite.

The concept of the statite was invented by Robert L. Forward. No statites have been deployed to date, as solar sail technology is still in its infancy. See Forward's U.S. Patent 5,183,225, "Statite: Spacecraft That Utilizes Light Pressure and Method of Use," filed 9 January 1989 and issued 2 February 1993 (external link below).

Hmmm, static and satellites. But the static in this case means fixed, not static electricity.

There does appear to be overlap between Dr. Brown's research and Robert Forward's work. For Forward to know Brown in the 1970s means that either this person read about it (and we know how sketchy his writings were except for newspaper articles) or he met with Dr. Brown directly. For if Forward was to design a 'rotating cruciform gravity gradiometer or 'Forward Mass Detector', for Lunar Mascon (mass concentration) measurements', he would have to consult an expert on gravity. And the only one that really was an expert on gravity during that timeframe was Dr. Brown. I agree, Nate, his interests would seem to coincide.

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Trickfox » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:10 pm

Rose wrote:i just posted this quote on the People thread. i would not have done it had I known that you were indeed the mentioned forensics expert...I think of you as a genius of a different stripe

Tony Patterson and Raymond Lavas (Ted Gunderson's former forensics expert) through Bobby Riconosciuto. Tony Patterson had allegedly served with Robert Booth Nichols in Vietnam, and Raymond Lavas had access to Michael Riconosciuto's hidden computer tapes.

Sending you a big hug and kiss for your decision to distance yourself from the destructive side of the work, Tricksie. I hope you are feeling well again.

rose

Tony Paterson worked for ASIO and Nickols claims he was in the CIA in court and btw he was buddies with Stephen Segal (even made a cameo appearance in the film "under siege")
If only the world could understand the power others could have abused at that time when I was keeping those PROMIS tapes. Instead I gave them to the house judiciary comittee who were investigating the inslaw scandal and the "Keating five" during the Reagan aministration tactics. The evidence just dissapeared from the public. Here is the last you will ever see of those computer tapes: "sitting on the hood of the car rented by house juiciary committee investigators; ImageOh but it's all Water uder the bridge now right?
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we don't dare say anything against him, besides... it was Oli's fault!!!

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:24 pm

Trickfox,

That is quite interesting on the tapes.

But the real reason I'm posting this is I started reading this thread that Paul has woven and I happened to see this found here:
http://www.ttbrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p18
quasar_2000 wrote:4) The dielectric used: Whilst the Electrokinetic patent mentions the use of a "surrounding medium" such as air as its insulator, T T Brown found that he was able to achieve better results with other (High K strength insulators) materials. He was able to achieve levitation and movement in a vacuum. In these tests he used barium titanate. With uranium based dielectrics this would be able to be increased exponetionally.


Now elsewhere we were talking about Floyd Odlum's uranium mine. Originally uranium was used by the U.S. Government for reactor or bomb material. Typically uranium was used in fission reactions. But in the past, radioactivity was exploited as it emits alpha or beta particles and can induce ionic flow. This ion flow can create an electron cascade and was reported to be the heart of Moray's vacuum tubes and Tesla's cold cathode tubes. But if there are black projects requiring radioactive material to use for these purposes, even a "pinched out mine" could probably produce enough material to satisfy these types of experiments.

Now as for uranium with a high k value, does anyone know if this is true? Andrew, could you enlighten us on this since you are a geologist. Now we know uranium can form ceramic and glass-like materials and of course there is uranium glass (Fiestaware) which was popular in the 1960s and 1970s. Remember that orange color? Fiestaware was discontinued in 1973 but Odlum's mine could conceivably have been providing the uranium for its manufacture as well. Nothing like the manufacture of dinner plates to cover manufacture of capacitor or disk shaped plates...

MagicBill
P.S. Whatever happened to some of these guys like quasar_2000 and PyroPete?
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:43 pm

htmagic wrote:For Forward to know Brown in the 1970s means that either this person read about it (and we know how sketchy his writings were except for newspaper articles) or he met with Dr. Brown directly.

MagicBill


You need to go past the either/or scenario and you must begin to realize, whether you wish to or not, is that firms talk with each other. Bob Forward went to work for Hughes after graduation in the late sixties. Feynman had connections at Hughes. People in these circles talk and they will discuss general knowledge but most have learned to keep their hut doors closed a little more tightly. That does not mean that friends of friends don't help with answers to certain questions. However, some questions don't get answered either, just like I didn't answer your question about frequency.

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