WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby greggvizza » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:50 pm

htmagic wrote:Now we know uranium can form ceramic and glass-like materials and of course there is uranium glass (Fiestaware) which was popular in the 1960s and 1970s. Remember that orange color? Fiestaware was discontinued in 1973 but Odlum's mine could conceivably have been providing the uranium for its manufacture as well. Nothing like the manufacture of dinner plates to cover manufacture of capacitor or disk shaped plates...


I had never heard of such tableware. I did a search and found this.

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/fiesta.htm

Hard to believe that by weight 14% of the glazing was uranium.
I guess these were great for keeping your food and coffee warm for an infinite period of time.

Neat invention.

GV
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:00 pm

greggvizza wrote:
I had never heard of such tableware. I did a search and found this.

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/fiesta.htm

Hard to believe that by weight 14% of the glazing was uranium.
I guess these were great for keeping your food and coffee warm for an infinite period of time.

Neat invention.

GV


Mr. Vizza,

I remember these bowls etc. quite well. We had blue, green, red but no ivory. We always used these for ice cream and I enjoyed the blue and my sister the green. The crap you remember....wish I could remember other stuff...<g> Oh well, back to antennas..

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Chris Knight » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:07 pm

Here is a quote regarding depleted uranium from http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/pdf/potentialuses.pdf:

The 1.3-eV energy band gap4 for uranium dioxide (UO2) lies between Si and GaAs at the optimum of the band gap vs efficiency curve, indicating that one should be able to use uranium oxides to make very efficient solar cells,
semiconductors, or other electronic devices. The intrinsic electrical conductivity of UO2 is approximately the same as GaAs. The dielectric constant4 of UO2 (-22) is nearly double that for Si (11.2) and GaAs (14.1), perhaps making UO2 better suited for higher density integrated circuits than are silicon electronics, without suffering CMOS tunneling breakdown due to the smaller nanometer size features. The ceramic oxides of uranium, e.g. UO2, can withstand much higher operating temperatures (-2600EK) than can Si or GaAs (<473EK). Thus, it appears that a new higher-performance class of semiconductors is possible: DU-based semiconductors. It is envisioned that these new semiconductors may be suitable for use in harsh environments wherein traditional semiconductors are inappropriate, such as in space applications.


Not much information available on pure uranium.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:27 pm

Chris Knight wrote:Not much information available on pure uranium.


Andrew,

Thank you for the info on uranium compounds. Uranium in its pure form is a metal, like lead, but heavier. It would probably not have a dielectric strength as it would be a conductor.

The Fiestaware I remembered from the 1970s was the red-orange dishes. And I vaguely remember them coming in other colors as well. I also remember uranium glass with the greenish tint to it also called "Vaseline glass" which apparently was also big during the depression.

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Rose » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:06 pm

LOL at Gregg!

I never knew that Fiestaware was uranium=based. ! I remember how their colors glowed, though.

This trip down memory lane brings back this connection to the science of TTB. When I was a kid they made me go to bed way too early, so I'd create some mind diversion to entertain myself until I fell asleep. Through my imaginings, I "invented" a train that was propelled forward by the suspension of a giant magnet in front of it. As simplistic a thought as that was, it has been my door into understanding much of Dr. B's work. "Conditioning the field" seems to say everything to me and I see an unintended pun in the name of the BIe-feld Brown effect.

Today, I'm trying to imagine the intellectual "field" that surrounded these guys. Recognizing the mentor/mentee relationship that develops in research situations, i see Dr. Hulbert of the NRL taking quite an interest in this exceptional young sailor. He's quite an anomaly: an applications oriented researcher in a basic science field. The kid's demonstrations contradict current theoretical science, but your science gut tells you he's ahead of the curve. He's onto something worthwhile.

What would you do with a guy like that? Maybe you would take his lab notes and classify all of them, just because what he's doing is so far out, nobody knows what it means in terms of military applications. But wouldn't you also get some brainstorming going on about it inside your lab? Maybe if someone saw a way to reverse engineer the bits they themselves understood, you'd eventually see a patent application like this:


The fundamental principles underlying the operation of a new type of portable electrometer are given. It is shown that the [b]periodic transfer of static charges from one capacity system to another
and back again can be used to produce an alternating electrical potential. [/b]

Ross Gunn
Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C.
Received 15 February 1932


Or maybe that's just me overreaching for a simplistic connection between Brown and Gunn. It wouldn't be the first time, it certainly won't be the last. Remember the scene of the Beautiful Mind movie, where he had his wall covered with newspaper clippings and arrows and diagrams? Thats what my mental filing cabinets look like!

For example, when I see the following sentences, Radomir, several, even more tenuous connections come to mind:
Communication to external sources can be effected in a number of ways; however, the most impressive is that one which modulates the field strength of the plasmoid with voice patterns.


I believe AM was the first to bring up DNA here, and although I don't understand the connection, I saw both DNA and Plasmoids mentioned in the Parallel Time/Crop Circle research paper recently. So how dos that relate to Voice control?

There was english translation of a german translation of russian work circulating a few years ago that claimed that DNA is responsive to voice imprinting. Sounds mystical to me, not that i mind, but scientists will scoff until the research has been replicated a dozen times.

And then there was this:

The broadcast covers a great number of radio frequencies simultaneously. In such cases 'receivers' can be the human mind all by itself.
This stirred a recall

    1, of Dr. Brown's fan, which could broadcast a tremendously wide range of frequencies
    2. of Dr. Rausch's claim that with enough money she could influence the mood of entire towns
    3. and, most recently, the new marketing technology that beams sales commercials directy into audio centers of individual shoppers.

I've got a million red arrows all over those yellow stickies!

Sorry for the thread drift, y'all.

today I'm
wandering rose.
Last edited by Rose on Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Rose » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:17 pm

Trickfox,

Better to have evidence disappear than to have YOU disappear.

Do you think Reagan was a bad guy or a used guy?

hope your arms are feeling better, today.

rose.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Trickfox » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:25 pm

I think Ronald Reagan was a GREAT communicator. I never met him personally so I can't possibly give you my own impression of him. Time will judge the man when we all find out about his past scandals, I hope people will still find him to have been a good man. Being pesident of the US is a very tough job and I think he did a pretty good job at it anyhow.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Rose » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:29 am

Thanks, I just needed to clarify your meaning!

Sometimes I think I don't know anything anymore about who was a good guy and who wasa bad guy a far as presidents go. If Nixon turns out to be secret hero, I'm hanging up my intuition hat! <g>

Ronald Reagan was a hero.
we don't dare say anything against him, besides... it was Oli's fault!!!

trickfox


Got any seed questions about TTB and mining technology for Michael? Rachel mentioned on another thread that he would answer a few if we came up with a list.

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:50 am

Rose wrote:Got any seed questions about TTB and mining technology for Michael? Rachel mentioned on another thread that he would answer a few if we came up with a list.

rose

Rose,

Sure, I will give it a shot.

Please have Michael describe his electrostatic device and how it relates to mining.
Tell us how it works and why it is better than conventional techniques.
I would be curious on voltage/power levels and the amount of ore extracted per kW of energy vs. conventional mining techniques. If there is disintegration or the ore breaking apart due to the atomic binding forces, I would be curious on dust levels generated and how fugitive dust emissions are controlled.

Thanks!

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby Rose » Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:29 am

Good Questions, Bill! To recap, here are the first questions as submitted by you. Assuming that a few questions means 12 or less, there may be others as bprioritized by the Parallel Universe Forum.

i'd like to know some people stuff, like did Michael ever meet Dr. B? What did he (Michael) think of him? What did they talk about? Was Dr. B. ever in the mine?

Technically speaking, I'm thinking black. Deep, dark, black. Mining technology is very explosive,you know.

Even the atomic bomb is measured in terms of delivered TNT, so how many megatons of TNT does it take to pulverize rock???
And yet, TNT can't be the appropriate measure if we're talking about something that can pulverize rock within a chamber and leave the chamber (mine) still standing, can it?

Nate, you are indeed a great researcher! So keely was "conditioning the field" through sound vibrations even before Tesla came along? VEDDY interesting to us historians of science.

thanks,
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby natecull » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:53 am

Rose wrote:Technically speaking, I'm thinking black. Deep, dark, black. Mining technology is very explosive,you know.


And the product of mining has more than industrial uses. Not only can gold and diamonds potentially flood the global economy, uranium and who knows what other rare earths have geostrategic implications. I'm no geologist, but I imagine for this reason mining technology (and the ways to detect from eg satellite, where it is being used) would be fairly high up there on the list of monitored and controlled knowledge.

But in the early days of the A-bomb, a worldwide US-UK monopoly on *all* uranium mining was considered not just achievable but practically a 'done deal'.

From 'The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb':

This memorandum/report was only declassified and made available to researchers some forty-five years after the fact, in 1990. Some of the information it contained concerned the atomic bomb schedule -- and also U.S. maneuvering to achieve a global monopoly over important raw materials. Stimson's point that "physically the US is at present in the position of controlling the resources" was spelled out in considerable detail:

Our operation plans are based on the gun type bomb, the first of which, without previous full-scale test (and we do not believe this will be necessary), should be ready about 1 August 1945....
We should have sufficient material for the first implosion type bomb to be tested in the United States in the early part of July....
Uranium is not a widespread element in recoverable amounts....
In furtherance of their policy of gaining control of uranium ores throughout the world
, the Governments of the United States and the United Kingdom entered into an agreement with the Government of Belgium [regarding the Belgian Congo] in September 1944....
Thorium, another of the elements, has properties similar to uranium. Consequently, several new agreements to obtain complete control of thorium ores are presently anticipated.


The longer memorandum also offered a number of important recommendations -- including:
There must be continuous, vigorous, and exensive research and development of the possibilities of atomic energy including the use of radioactive substances. This will entail:
a. Full cooperation with the United Kingdom
b. The continued procurement and movement to American and British control of available world supplies of uranium and thorium.
c. The improvement and operation of the most efficient manufacturing processes.
d. The improvement of the bomb....
h. Fundamental research so as to retain our present lead in the field.


So the initial plan was complete world domination via domination of radioactives. Must have been awkward when that evaporated and the Russians and UN had to be let into the club. I'm sure top people - at least the people with a mind toward 'full spectrum dominance' rather than globalisation - would have been looking for ways to reassert such a monopoly in any way possible. And should there threaten to emerge any other power-generation technology comparable to nuclear fission but not dependent on the Big Boys Club, that would be a major strategic crisis.

Failing the Bomb, could the dream of some kind of 'supercraft' have fitted there as a potential replacement? Not just air supremacy, not just low-observability, but absolute unquestioned dominance? And given the sharp division of military opinion over the A-bomb, could there have been equaly forceful ideological factions determined to prevent such a monopoly of force?

(I still don't get how even a really advanced craft can prevail against a committed low-tech opponent, as in Iraq. But maybe it didn't have to be a sensible plan, just deeply believed in? Or am I on the wrong track even thinking 'craft'?)

And even if you're a guy like Floyd Odlum, if you're going to take over a uranium mine in the McCarthy '50s and 'divert' its product, wouldn't that be a bit like stealing from the Mob in terms of hazard to lifespan?

Nate, you are indeed a great researcher! So keely was "conditioning the field" through sound vibrations even before Tesla came along? VEDDY interesting to us historians of science.


Ennh, I've been living with a head full of weird fringe factoids for several decades now. I've never sure if anything leads anywhere. I'm just trying to stay somewhat sane and keep vaguely up with the other Mr Jones. I don't mind mysteries, but I hate paradoxes.
It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby htmagic » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:06 am

Rose wrote:Even the atomic bomb is measured in terms of delivered TNT, so how many megatons of TNT does it take to pulverize rock???
And yet, TNT can't be the appropriate measure if we're talking about something that can pulverize rock within a chamber and leave the chamber (mine) still standing, can it?

Nate, you are indeed a great researcher! So keely was "conditioning the field" through sound vibrations even before Tesla came along? VEDDY interesting to us historians of science.

thanks,
rose

Rose,

How much explosive you use depends upon the type of mining and the geology. For instance, drilling holes in rock and blasting holes in a shaft mine is different than strip mining where the overburden must be removed. And in strip mining, ammonium nitrate or similar may be used there.

John Keely (September 3, 1827 – November 18, 1898) was a US inventor from Philadelphia who invented the Keely Motor which he claimed to be capable of perpetual motion. Keely invented, reportedly, an induction resonance motion motor. He is supposed to have used "etheric technology". There are mixed reports on Keely. His scientific explanations did not match those of other scientists at the time and after his death his lab was dismantled and they found fine capillaries embedded in the walls. He could have been a fake and was probably a showman to attract investors. His theories on resonance make sense but the rest of the science doesn't jive.

Tesla (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) contributed in varying degrees to the establishment of robotics, remote control, radar and computer science, and to the expansion of ballistics, nuclear physics, and theoretical physics. In 1943, the Supreme Court of the United States credited him as being the inventor of the radio. Tesla also gave us AC electricity as Edison was promoting DC. Tesla teamed with Westinghouse to build a generating plant at Niagara Falls and transmitted the power to Buffalo, NY. Tesla also believed in the aether and said it behaved as a gas. Tesla used capacitive antennas and later discussed a new form of energy called radiant energy. He said this energy traveled longitudinally versus the normal AC which traveled transversely. (I am still trying to understand what that means as it is not solid in my mind.) I believe the radiant energy is pulsed DC. Tesla is also reported to have talked to Mars and said there was intelligible life elsewhere. Scientists later found signals from planets in a regular manner and theorize that maybe that is what he heard. Was he visited? I don't know and have never run across anything that said he had.

Thomas Townsend Brown followed Tesla's footsteps and this sidereal radiation may be the same radiant (longitudinal) energy that Tesla discussed and Baron von Reichenbach's Od or Odic energy discovered in the 1800s.
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/odenergy.htm wrote:Reichenbach had already found that lens focussed Od light could produce images on daguerreotype plates. He therefore began producing photographic proof of perceptions made by his sensitives for his colleagues. The first of these "Odographs" were published in 1861, to the astonishment of critical academes.


Much mystery is associated with Tesla dn we see that with Dr. Brown as well. We see the similarities in Tesla and Brown with the ET communications, resonance and frequencies, radar, and this radiation from the aether.

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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby natecull » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:33 am

I'm slowly reading through the forum backlog from 2006, and thought I'd just make a note here. I'm intrigued by two posters in particular: wdavidb and H. Short. I have no first-hand familiarity with MKULTRA (thank God) but the rumours haunted me in a bad way even before I knew what it was. Then in the 90s a lot of stuff of both valid and dubious provenance has surfaced (Ewan Cameron, Bluebird, Tranceformation of America). What wdavidb says about memory and dissociation resonates with what I've read elsewhere. Let's just say that I'll never look at 'Joe 90' again the same way, and I'll be squeamish about watching Joss Whedon's 'Dollhouse'. There's stuff there that I *really* don't want to know about, but I think at some point it does cross over with this story - particularly via Deyo and the nuclear medicine / MKULTRA link that Langley uncovered. What wdavidb says about 'fields' also resonates, though it doesn't make sense rationally, but it's a point of view I've heard from other psi/mystical quarters, makes a certain amount of intuitive sense, and would dearly love to find a way toward understanding.

H. Short's post about MHD/EHD and toroidal magnetic fields here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110&p=5756#p5756
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=110&p=5789#p5789

clicks VERY strongly with the line I've been chasing on this thread about Deyo's saucers, Brown's 1958 disc vortex diagram, and what I intuit strongly (but can't rationalise) is a line from the cyclotron, to the magnetron, to Brown's discs, to the tokamak.

A toroidal magnetic field has no poles, as the lines are parallel with the circumference of the toroid - in other words the magnetic field takes the form of sheaths around the toroid, much like what an onion doughnut might look like. The value of this configuration lies in the fact that when you elongate the toroid, such as if you laid a doughnut flat on a table and then pulled up to stretch it into a long pipe shape, then you have a very large area of uniformly packed magnetic lines parallel to the circumference which are easily intersected in a perpendicular manner by electric lines of force radiating in a radial manner from the body of the device. Just imagine a stack of wagon wheels on an axle with their hubs as the body of the device, the spokes the electric lines, and the rims the magnetic lines. The generated force from this configuration is then in an axial direction thorough out the entire three dimensional sheath surrounding the device where the electrical and magnetic intersect.

Now knowing this little bit of ancient technology look around and ask yourself where can you find a lot of activity, mostly secret, utilizing billions of dollars on electromagnetic toroidal research? The answer is fusion, in the form of the Tokamak toroid. Billions poured in over the years but no fusion. Interesting coincidence.


Paul S.'EHD vs MHD': "toroidal" magnetic phenomena: The use of a toroidal design to generate properly aligned e and b fields is actually not very efficient for simple propulsion since the outer fields get pretty dispersed. What the toroidal field allows is a simple design to produce a field which will enclose the entire device. Everything within that field will experience the same force vectors acting on them down to the sub-atomic level. This would, in an example of a vehicle, eliminate acceleration stress - basically everything inside the field would be in its own gravity bubble. So, is Tokamak research perhaps also about something other than fusion? I don't know, but together with the above and your ongoing revelations about what Townsend Brown's life and research was really about, it is... interesting.


Two things: One, this comment about the key point of the toroidal field being that it encloses its generator, I think makes Deyo's claim a little clearer to me. I'm still not sure if this can be squared with conventional physics or not.

Two: Deyo points at Teller and Sakharov. What links them? The tokamak. And this at last gives me a halfway plausible reason why a giant like Teller could flush billions of dollars down the fusion hole if he knew of a better way: if the technology or at least the basic research science had a dual use for learning how to achieve fine control over other kinds of non-power-generating toroidal fields. Yet, fusion tokamaks evidently don't tear themselves from their labs and levitate, so it can't be the same principle, not even close - so how easily does the research transfer? But I am intrigued by the allegation that there *could* be a real 'conspiracy here'. It seems like a proposition we could investigate and either validate or invalidate, so we have the chance to do real research there.

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the hot-fusion research complex, and on the surface it seems incredible that anything could be hidden in such a glare of scientific rigor and publicity. But it's something I stand at least a chance of learning about. Does anyone who's closer to the beast think there's the remotest chance there could be a shadow where 'alternative toroidal magnetic field research' could be hidden, and pathways by which knowledge could be transferred in and out of such a shadow?

Edit: The first distinction that comes to mind is that in a cyclotron, magnetron and tokamak, the magnetic field is on the outside, and the electrons/waveform/plasma inside. Though the field is toroidal, it is inward focused. The EHD/MHD vehicle is the exact opposite of this, an outward directed toroid. The geometry is totally different.

The second distinction is that the tokamak stream is only one focus within fusion research, and I'm not sure it can be isolated. It's hard to see how, for example, laser fusion could have anything to do with toroidal field research at all.

My gut feeling is that most (possibly all) fusion research really is looking for fusion. But if there were any 'conspiracy' I would probably look not at the front-line researchers, but for funding sources. Who chooses what particular models get approved for funding? Theoretically the tokamak won out because it's most efficient. Is that in fact the case? Perhaps it is, but Bussard's frustration with the Polywell suggests it might not be. And note that once again, of all people in the hot fusion establishment, it's the Navy Research Lab that picked that one up. Are there any other splits within the establishment between tokamak and non-tokamak models? Or perhaps rather, between *magnetic confinement*, plasma-manipulation, and non-magnetic confinement models. Is it merely a lack of vision, the fact that most fusion researchers are familiar with the existing models? Or has a funding or evaluation framework been deliberately created to keep research pointed in certain directions?
It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby natecull » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:31 am

Huh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_nuclear_fusion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huemul_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Richter

Have we talked about this guy at all? Four years younger than Townsend Brown.

...when I was Prof. Furth's assistant in the Department of Experimental Physics [of Prague University], [Richter] came to interest us in a fantastic project. He had read (not in a scientific journal, of course) about the discovery of a mysterious radiation, the "earth rays", that radiated from the interior of the Earth and caused a huge type of fabulous effects. These were what he wanted to research. He was very excited with the idea, and it was very difficult to convince him (if we really did) that the "evidence" cited was spurious. His thesis was not published

– Kurt Sitte, Mariscotti, 1985, quoting Alemann, 1955


Perón believed that any project undertaken by a German scientist was bound to be successful. Due to his political disagreements with true Argentinean scientists of the stature of, for example, Enrique Gaviola, Perón was reluctant to seek their advice on Richter's proposal and he gave Richter an effective blank check and appointed him as his personal representative in the Bariloche area. The total cost of the project was estimated at 300 million USD (2003 value) [3]

In 1951 Richter announced that he had achieved controlled nuclear fuion under laboratory conditions; a claim that was later proven false, it transpiring that Richer had simply exploded hydrogen in an electric arc.


http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/P ... 12_1.shtml
http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/P ... 14_1.shtml
http://scitation.aip.org/journals/doc/P ... 32_1.shtml

On 24 March 1951, shortly after our return from Cerro Laguna, Perón startled the world with his announcement that "the Argentine scientist Richter"--who couldn't speak a word of Spanish--had achieved the controlled release of nuclear-fusion energy.2 Not one real Argentine physicist was participating in the Huemul project, and not one in the entire country believed in the truth of Perón's announcement. But 20 months would pass and 62 million pesos would be wasted before CNEA president Pedro Iraolagoitía could, with Perón's tacit and reluctant approval, intervene with a paramilitary operation and put an end to Richter's near-absolute authority.


It was a fraud, but it needed to be shut down with a paramilitary operation?

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-41.1063 ... 89,-71.395
It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
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Re: WIRED on "The AntiGravity Underground"

Postby FM No Static At All » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:53 am

greggvizza wrote:I had never heard of such tableware. I did a search and found this.

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer%20products/fiesta.htm

Hard to believe that by weight 14% of the glazing was uranium.
I guess these were great for keeping your food and coffee warm for an infinite period of time.

Neat invention.

GV

I lived in Newell, W VA back in the early 1970s while riding at Waterford Park Race Track. I guess based on what you have discovered, the town was quite a "glowing spectacle", and not for its race track!

My furnished apartment included many pieces of Fiesta Ware but I preferred the dinnerware that my mother gave me. I'm certainly glad I did! Oh what wonderful synchronicities I have enjoyed over the years. I am glad to be part of this "glowing" family too!

Fred a.k.a.
FM - No Static At All
'The only reason some people get lost in thought is because its unfamiliar territory.'

http://fixamerica-fredmars.blogspot.com/
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