Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby amalie » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:11 pm

Mikado,

is it the flawed nature of the draft that you object to, or is it the basic premise that you object to, or both ?

Meaning the treaty draft that is, it would be a great shame if the content is not available because it is badly worded.

Do you think you would be able to rewrite the draft so that it was no longer flawed ?

I don't suppose you would, because it does not seem as if you want to have anything to do with all this anyway,
but I thought I would just let you know, that yours is the very first criticism of that type that I have received .

I should also tell you that I am well educated and very highly educated although I am not part of formal qualifications attributes because I did not chose to take that route, that does not imply my lack of proper and advanced education (or even qualifications) for this particular job, I can assure you.

Anyway, it took me about 2 days or so, to compose the treaty draft that you found on the web site. I am sure you could write it out again in about half an hour, if you wished.

Such support for flawlessness which is an essential, would be a real help, but I guess you would not want to undertake that , because you do not approve of the substance of the draft, so I probably should not even ask.

I am talking to my engineering friend, we are putting together a "future reuse concept " for Hangar One at Ames. I will let you know if that turns out to be the right way to get the treaty down to Congress.

Best Wishes

Amalie
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:43 pm

skyfish wrote:Anybody want to talk about what the effect is? I have been catching up reading some older posts. Be patient with me...I am just and IT guy and fairly new to this forum. Mikado...were you looking for capitance?

–noun Electricity. 1. the ratio of an impressed charge on a conductor to the corresponding change in potential.
2. the ratio of the charge on either conductor of a capacitor to the potential difference between the conductors.
3. the property of being able to collect a charge of electricity. Symbol: C

Charge is involved by definition. ..



You said and I cut and paste:
skyfish wrote: The effect is...the ability of highly charged dielectrics..


Dielectrics by themselves do not charge unless it is static, Apparently I should have assumed you meant capacitor even though you said "dielectric" but by your own definition above #2 it says "capacitor" and not "dielectric" as your quote. Therefore, charge is NOT involved by definition when talking strictly about a dielectric.

skyfish wrote:What else is there beside all of space and time...at least in this universe/dimension?..


Time is condidered a dimension by itself since it can be measured, as well as space. If you consider space you need to consider that which has nothing and everything. I was just told this by someone very wise, just recently.

skyfish wrote:As for configuration...
How about large very high voltage rotating and/or pulsed gradient fields for starters.


Too general. What is creating the High Voltage, how is it being rotated and what do you mean by "pulsed gradient fields" (I did keep your plural in which I assume that you are referring to the juxtaposition of the magnetic gradients produced by the pulsing of the High Voltage)

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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:48 pm

amalie wrote:Mikado,

is it the flawed nature of the draft that you object to, or is it the basic premise that you object to, or both ?

Meaning the treaty draft that is, it would be a great shame if the content is not available because it is badly worded.

Do you think you would be able to rewrite the draft so that it was no longer flawed ?

I don't suppose you would, because it does not seem as if you want to have anything to do with all this anyway,
but I thought I would just let you know, that yours is the very first criticism of that type that I have received .

I should also tell you that I am well educated and very highly educated although I am not part of formal qualifications attributes because I did not chose to take that route, that does not imply my lack of proper and advanced education (or even qualifications) for this particular job, I can assure you.

Anyway, it took me about 2 days or so, to compose the treaty draft that you found on the web site. I am sure you could write it out again in about half an hour, if you wished.

Such support for flawlessness which is an essential, would be a real help, but I guess you would not want to undertake that , because you do not approve of the substance of the draft, so I probably should not even ask.

I am talking to my engineering friend, we are putting together a "future reuse concept " for Hangar One at Ames. I will let you know if that turns out to be the right way to get the treaty down to Congress.

Best Wishes

Amalie


You still don't get it....it is flawed from a legal standpoint of enforcement. Any document that needs outside interpretation is considered to be flawed. For being so educated perhaps you should be reading up in West Law and the drafting of a legal document.

You took it personal....so be it.

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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby skyfish » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:34 pm

Mikado,
It's not like I have this stuff in my basement.lol You know what I am getting at... But here is another fanciful idea that popped into my head...
What if the propulsive effect is produced externally to the field, but between the poles...where the torsion effect lies...that is where time travel takes place...if we are in a phase lock and our relationship is rotation...then time probably spirals away...to the future and the past...
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby amalie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:18 am

Mikado ,

What do you mean flawed from a " legal standpoint of enforcement"

Legal standpoint for enforcement is a matter for the international courts of jurisdiction, such as UN international legal authority, NATO and all other national defense and economic alliances. Also through the courts at the Hague, tribunals, hearings and so on, not anything to do with the wording or context of the preliminary draft .

Within ISST process for global security nets , enforcement is by mutual consent or by majority representation . It also operates within opt/in opt /out clauses that are designed to ensure national integrities and freedom of choice . This is a consensual treaty ,no nation is obliged to subscribe for real -time implementation programs after ratification, unless they choose so. Implementations as effect are compiled in real time through computational facilities,as in Raymonds ASERT program.

The treaty clauses are compiled on a case by case basis via current Congressional objectives for US technology exports , International community can make needed adjustments before ratification. The process for adjustments will be available for all the terms that the treaty includes, and it can be revised to reflect economic balances . Availability does not mean exclusion .

It is very possible for the US to create this platform and still retain all their obvious national rights and even advantages , US does not need to give anything up for this, and it will gain more in many ways through the treaty alliances. But then security is just one aspect of the platform .

I thnk that ISST is much better worded than ISIS Space Preservation Treaty SPT which does not need need much enforcement at all because that is a "hands off" treaty that basically says "you can do what you want down here, as long as you don't make a mess up there" (that is in space which remains pristine and free of weapons while we all perish in the climate change)

( clauses against space weaponization are not possible to enforce at all, because all space equipment can be used as a weapon in some way )

SPT is the other currently available space treaty, it was produced and published in Canada by Dennis Kucinich and Alfred and Carol Rosin , Kucinich even passed a bill in the House to recommend SPT. You should read SPT through that as well. It might well appeal to you much more. Located on the ICIS web site , there is a picture of me in there somewhere as well. Under "Space for Progress" 2004 , unless it has been removed. Carol said she would use me as wallpaper, I must say I look half asleep and kind of wallpapery, blinking in a red polyester suit,
not very photogenic unfortunately.

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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:23 am

amalie wrote:Mikado ,

What do you mean flawed from a " legal standpoint of enforcement"

Legal standpoint is a matter for the international courts of jurisdiction, such as UN international legal authority, courts at the Hauge, International alliances ,tribunals of hearings and so on, not anything to do with the wording or context of the preliminary draft .


First of all, do you know what a treaty is in a court of law? It is interpreted as "contract law". Those that sign the treaty are essentially signing a contract with all the "whereas's", the "now therefore's" etc within. It is a contract and all contracts should include penalties if the signatories of the instrument default from the agreed upon conditions. Secondly, within the contract should be remedies as well and the means of "enforcement". It is apparent that you don't understand the basic tenents. Therefore, if the treaty cannot stand on it's own to an extent and must have it's intentions interpreted by a court of law, it is flawed. If you don't see it, so be it but I am not going to explain to you legal terms. Your claim that it took you two days to draft the document on your website, well, good for you. I told you with my limited knowledge that it is flawed and if I can see the flaws well, I believe that others that are much better versed in international law will see them as well. Perhaps that is why you are not getting the support that you are. I don't know how else to explain it to you for you don't want to hear about "visions". You are naive to believe that the Congress of this United States is going to pass a document as the one I read on your website. The best you can possibly hope to acheive is for it to go to committee and I doubt it will but then that is why there are windmills I suppose.

amalie wrote:Within ISST process for global security nets , enforcement is by mutual consent or by majority representation . It also operates with opt/in opt /out clauses that are designed to ensure national integrities and freedom of choice . This is a consensual treaty ,no nation is obliged to subscribe for implementation clauses after ratification , unless they choose so. Implementation clauses are compiled on a case by case basis
via Congressional objectives , International community can make adjustments before ratification. That is for all the terms that the treaty includes, availability does not mean exclusion . It is very possible for US to create this platform and still retain all national rights and advantages , they do not need to give anything up for this , and more substance is enabled through treaty alliances. But then security is just one aspect of the platform .


You have got to be kidding? Do you really believe this? Anyone who would sign any document without knowing full the ramifications of default is an idiot. Once signed, no redress.

amalie wrote:I thnk that ISST is much better worded than ISIS Space Preservation Treaty SPT which does not need need much enforcement because that is a "hands off" treaty that basically says "you can do what you want down here , as long as you don't make as mess up there ". SPT is the other currently available space treaty, it was produced and published in Canada by Dennis Kucinich and Alfred and Carol, Kucinich even passed a bill in the House to recommend SPT. You should read through that as well . It might appeal to you more. Located on the ICIS web site .


I have no intentions to read anything but thanks for considering that I would. There are four people here that have been able to read a working draft of a document that conforms to Pennsylvania law that I composed. There is another that has been able to peruse a civil action that I filed in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania Federal Court. I have experience in other words, I know a bit therefore take what I have said with a grain of salt or use it to improve upon your condition, the choice is yours.

Now, this thread is called the "Thomas Townsend Brown Effect" not the redirected "Space Policy" thread and until you can show how ISST (and please don't say Plasma drive that is sort of having the sound effect of a prop plane while watching a jet fly...oh yeah, already been done) is connected to Dr. Brown.

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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby amalie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:55 am

Mikado,

ISST is not directly connected to TT Brown's life work of course, how could it be, unless you consider a connection within some of the interrelated humanistic thematics and those would only be for intellectual connections, ones that could be brought forward by the keepers of the flame, still they don't like the treaty much,so they probably would not want too do anything like that .

I do think though that the your authorized definition for connection into TT Browns work is being rather narrowly applied in my case, after all you are happy to have conversations about crop circles, dowsing and even metaphysics, what is the direct connection with TT Brown's work for those topics?

Is it that TT Brown was interested and expounded upon such innovative ideas ?

If TT brown was not at all interested in space policy, and that is your criteria for inclusion, I am sure that disqualifies me from introducing the topic.

I am sure I did not wish to disturb you at all .

Best wishes

Amalie
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:21 am

amalie wrote:

I do think though that the your authorized definition for connection into TT Browns work is being rather narrowly applied in my case, after all you are happy to have conversations about crop circles, dowsing and even metaphysics, what is the direct connection with TT Brown's work for those topics?



Amalie


Let us clear you up on a few things:

Crop circles - the connection is very strongly linked to node points with ley lines and sidereal radiation for starters. Sidereal radiation was something that Dr. Brown studied and monitored until the week before he died.

dowsing - The ability to receive and sense the ley lines and being sensitive to the energies that Dr. Brown measured is, as kevin would say, spot on.

metaphysical - Well, how about the fact that Dr. Brown had those "visions" that you are so quick to dismiss.

You never read anything in regard to Dr. Brown. I don't know what Trickfox told you that the purpose of the forum is but let me clue you in on this, it is about the life of Dr. Brown, his work, his dreams, his agonies as well as his ecstacies. You just wouldn't understand it for you are centered on your myopic megalomaniacal wordsmithing that says absolutely the same thing over and over.

You never read a damn thing in regard to Dr Brown but I took the time to read your work. A real dichotomy there. You want everyone to read what you wrote, I did, but you refuse to read anything about Dr. Brown and then you try, poorly I might add, to argue about topics when you don't have a clue as to how they apply.

You have led a very charmed life, apparently, and I am sure your tantrums were well received and you always got your way and you were never corrected or told that you were wrong, even when proven to you.....I hear the sound of a jet, sounds like a prop...

Mikado
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby amalie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:33 am

Mikado ,

Why do you keep saying " I refuse to read anything about TT Browns work " Raymond accused me of that as well, and it is simply not true.

Paul did not wish for me to have the draft of his book, because it was being returned for revision. Otherwise I would have read through that already.

I am trying to catch up as fast as I can, I am at some disadvantage already and not much good at physics either, so it is not easy .

But I do understand the need to communication with the forum where it actually is, and not to introduce any irrellivant concepts into the line of thought.

Amalie
Last edited by amalie on Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby amalie » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:42 am

Dear Mikado,

I know a lot about ley lines and visions, but not much about sidereal radiations so I need to find out more .

I suspect that this is the area where I might find a tangible connection into TT Browns work.
So you have pointed that area out to me, as did Linda earlier on.

This line of approach would have been the far easier one to have taken, silly of me to want to climb to the top of mountains, when there are fields right in front .

" myopic megolomaniac wordsemithing " does not sound like a very amenable condition. if I had had a clearer idea of what Raymond had originally intended , then this discussion might have been a very different one .

Like you I am very busy, and have a lot to finish up, so I will get back in touch later on after the 13th September.

Best Wishes

Amalie
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:54 pm

skyfish wrote:Mikado,
It's not like I have this stuff in my basement.lol You know what I am getting at... But here is another fanciful idea that popped into my head...
What if the propulsive effect is produced externally to the field, but between the poles...where the torsion effect lies...that is where time travel takes place...if we are in a phase lock and our relationship is rotation...then time probably spirals away...to the future and the past...


Mr. skyfish, I don't seem to recall welcoming you to the forum, welcome and excuse the remiss. If I did, well, just consider it as an extension.

Why do you assume that I know what you are getting at? I don't. I need to know what configuration of the "device" you are referencing. Just saying that you have a dielectric with two plates is not enough. Are the plates symmetrical or asymmetrical? Are we talking about the disc's that Dr. Brown worked with?

Now, the propulsive effect that you are pondering upon and you say that you believe that it is produced "externally to the field, but between the poles"????? For poles do you mean the plates of the capacitor? Speaking of the torsion effect, you need to clarify for me where this torsion is coming from, if you did, I missed and apologize for I have had my head in a legal quandry of late. Now the part you say "where time travel takes place" .... are you saying that time travel is taking place between the "poles" but in the dielectric?

Now the part about "phase lock" and "rotation". I wish to adddress with a quote of a post I made recently in another thread. I learned very well from this Irish submariner about telling a story with hidden meanings.

Mikado's post from another thread wrote:A lady told me a story that was told to her by a man. They were on a beach or it might have even been a desert but there was sand everywhere. He took one grain of sand and held it out in the palm of his hand and asked her what she saw, her response was "a grain of sand". He responded by saying, "look again" and she replied, "nothing". He said, "your right, nothing and everything. There is more in that grain than you can see but everything starts out that small, when you pick up the grain of sand from the beach, it is a grain of sand but when you put it back down it becomes a part of the whole, everything is connected. Take this back to him. Also, one grain of sand can be an obstacle when out of place so you have to be careful, take this to her with the dog named after him."

The man had no face.


The REAL important part of that is about the grain of sand.

kevin knows. listen to him or read some of his old posts.

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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:53 pm

I agree Mikado. Grains of sand. Nothing and Everything.

Skyfish, I know that Kevin can be hard to understand sometimes but just read what he has to offer and let the words settle on your mind. Later you will find common reference points of understanding. Points where your ideas and his match. Just like those grains of sand, we are all bringing something to this, each one of us carries information needed by the others, each of us are connected to the whole,

I am in a different thread right now but Kevin just posted today. Take a careful look at what he said about spirals .... and " slinkys". Perhaps I see his meaning with more points than you will at first but then I have been at this a considerable longer time. But each of us will see what we can, when we can. Linda
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Hector » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:04 pm

I see this happen a lot in this forum, we start with a technical question and we end up far removed from the subject matter of the question.

This is why I prefer the structure of the Fusor.net forum over this one.

Want to debate philosophy, than we should move the string to the philosophical part of the forum. Oh that's right we don't have one.

Focus people. We were trying to define what emperical factors define the TTBrown or Bifield Brown effect or whatever you want to call it. You want to debate treaty, start a post with the Title TREATY.



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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:34 pm

Point very well taken Hector. We should all focus.

But I feel the need to remind you that this " Townsend Brown Effect" may have much more of an impact on all of us than laboratory results might sense. We all have different ways of looking at this situation. That was the point. For you to miss that .... well, I understand. But it is a disappointment. My problem, not yours. Linda
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Re: Thomas Townsend Brown Effect

Postby Hector » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:53 pm

I have not missed it, although I don't claim to be as mystical or as ethereal as others here. I'm more about using the phenomenon to improve the quality of life for humanity. That said all I'm saying is that too many times the title of a post has little to do with what people begin to talk about a few replies later. In most cases the subject matter gets completely changed within the first page.

What I like to see is technical talk in the technical section and philosophical debate in the philosophical section, etc.

Ask Paul how the Fusor board does it. We move strings to different areas were they belong, so I know it's possible.

By the way I'm still looking for the film that has the Wright Patterson Air Force base testing of one of TTBrown’s devices done in the 50's. I think I have a good lead on a few old films that might be the one I saw the demonstration when I was kid.


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