"Lifter" experiments "In Vacuum"

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

again!

Postby James Barrett » Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:53 pm

Thank you Trickfox, as I just said in another post, just beneath your Arctic Fox ..... you have restored my sanity. You said:

You see being a trickfox is fun......,
you get to go back in time in the forum and play around with past events WHICH HAPPENED only back then.
Here is the trick behind TIME TRAVEL. If you don't pay attention to every little detail in the NOW, then you don't know for sure if anyone from the future has come back and changed your perception.
For instance..... JDB could be travelling back from the future to remind me to repost the long shameless post that I put in the forum earlier....because he assumed that I removed it.....or not....
1. http://forum.ttbrown.com/viewtopic.php? ... eless#6925

2. And my response to that ( in the wrong thread , I think) was


Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: re repost

Thank you Trickfox. You have restorecd my sanity.I KNEW I had seen that post and I wanted to comment on something else I had seen there but then I lost my place. really.

This is the part:

This high voltage discharge fired through the central column was then routed back to be stored on each individual cap section again, this time in parallel with each section carrying the new "higher" voltage than it started with. The sections were then discharged in series again starting the whole cycle over again, firing again and again, in each cycle reaching progressively higher voltages.


And I thought of what Paul most recently wrote about the " discharges" for the French experiments in a vacuum for Dr. Brown and I wondered here if we are possibly talk about the same thing? Lit up the room Dr. Brown said. Would have had me under a table, I think! JDB
1.
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easy to loose yourself in 10,000 posts

Postby Trickfox » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:10 pm

I sympathize with you JDB.....
Playing around with past posts is a two edged sword... sometimes you end up changing your own destiny by doing it....

It's like posting under different names.... it get tricky after a while.

Like juggling more than three tennis balls. At some point in time you have to relax. :roll:

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tricky fox

Postby Victoria Steele » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:35 pm

You said

I"t's like posting under different names.... it get tricky after a while."

So how tricky is it Trickfox? Are you speaking from experience here? How many times have you posted under a different name? I should have figured with a name like Trickfox that would be possible but somehow I haven't really thought that seriously. So.... who else are you Trickfox?

Victoria
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GHOST POSTS

Postby Trickfox » Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:11 pm

Ok.....I admit to posting under a different name only a few times last year...

Last year I posted a few times under the name BLEEP ......

By now everyone who has been here a while has figured it out anyway.

Anyone else wanna come clean, since we are on the subject ?

Never mind everyone!..... I guess it's none of my business anyway...

I guess it would be fun if I could get away with it! I mean post under another name.....

Maybe I'll try it later on.....

Got to keep some of the future newcomers on their toes here!!!!


Trickfox
Last edited by Trickfox on Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kevin.b » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:04 pm

Phew,
I thought for a moment you were going to say you are JZKnight.
This is the third forum today I have noticed this tell the truth thing going on?
Anybody keeping graphs like Dr Brown did of the variation in sidereal radiation, it was an enormous bright full moon last night here?

Kevin
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Falling off my chair laughing

Postby Trickfox » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:38 pm

Kevin

That was far too funny....

Let me catch my breath......

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absolute lunacy

Postby Victoria Steele » Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:39 pm

Yep, they say ( and I have seen back up statisics) that cases of ... well, lunatic behaviour occurs during the full moon more than any other time. Bound to affect the wolves .... and the little foxes! Me? I try to stay my normal lunatic self every day.

Anybody see one of the latest wireless network ( Verizon) commercials?
Big burley dude on a Harley, getting ready to head out .... young waitress comes running out with the plaintive " Will I ever see you again?" The guy answers .... "No, I travel alone" ( or something like that) ... then there is the patter about liking his Email etc and when he pulls off into the sunset he has this entire mob of motorcyclists roaring off with him. The Verizon Network of course .... but I think immediately of Morgan and wonder if thats sort of what he might look like ....... and I wonder what sort of a "network" he might travel with! Anyway, if you are familiar with the commercial you will see what I mean! I think the fellow must sort of look like Morgan, my image of him, anyway.

Trickfox " Dance in the light of the Moon!" Victoria
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Postby Mikado14 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:17 pm

Chris Knight wrote:Electrons can still be driven off an electrode in a vacuum - the vacuum relay industry (too bad the mainstream considers the technology outdated now) was based on driving electrons from a heated electrode (to increase the electron flow) along the lines of gradient to an oppositely charged electrode in partially evacuated chmbers. We've discussed the arcing of the saucers to some extent, so we know there was some charge transfer at some pressures.


I am a little confused at what you are saying but then I tend to get that way at times. When you say vacuum relay are you talking about a vacuum tube (electron tube) or valve (as the Brits would say)? Your description vaguely sounds to be a description of transconductance along with thermionic emission. From my perspective, a vacuum relay is just that, a relay hermetically sealed in a vacuum to reduce arcing and increase the potential between the contacts. No transfer is ever wanted until the relay closes.

So, did you mean relay or tube?

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specifics

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:59 pm

Thank you Mikado for asking for specifics and thank you everybody else out there for understanding that what Mikado is trying to do here is important.

We all need to develop some sort of common language so that we know what each one of us is actually trying to say, without misunderstandings. And that flat is not going to be easy. So if anyone can come up with more answers and more specific questions on terms too PLEASE do join Mikado here in this.

I don't want him to feel that he is the only one out there trying to understand in concrete terms. Its all of us. Just that we are not as well versed usually.

Thanking all of you, ahead of time. Elizabeth
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Postby Chris Knight » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:14 pm

My apologies, "vacuum tube" (my loose use of the term "vacuum relay" there must come from my growing up in southeastern Ohio), but your definition is correct.
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Explanation

Postby Hector » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:58 am

I figured I would answer some of the questions about what I’ve been doing. It’s true I said I was going to publish my work several years ago, but when dealing with the larger journals I found the task far more difficult than what I had anticipated. Second, my vacuum data was in my opinion not strong enough to meet these stringent requirements. Finally I decided to continue my research and gather stronger evidence, which I now have.

Just to let you guys know I posted more videos on YouTube so if you’re interested check them out.

Finally let me explain how TTBrown relates to my work. He was my inspiration and my spring board, but by 1996 I had abandoned his writings as a reliable reference source, because my own experimental data was flying in the face of what people said he had claimed. However I will tell you that given a low enough coefficient of friction, a suitable yet modest force can accelerate a rotor to a very high rotational speed because the force would transfer energy to the rotor over time which would accumulate.
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welcome again

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:03 am

Hector,

Welcome to the posts again Hector. Nice to see your name up there.

I can certainly appreciate you taking your time to make sure that your data is correct and strong. Its of the utmost importance, even though I know that it must be frustrating for you..

I think I have a handle on what you have said here but technically I am not at all strong in my understandings ... so would you mind rephrasing what you said here because for some reason I am having a hard time grasping it,

"I had abandoned his writings as a reliable reference source, because my own experimental data was flying in the face of what people said he had claimed"

Can you translate that for me? Meaning ... that what people had SAID about his work is different than what your understanding was? In other words other interpretations threw you in the wrong direction and caused you to discount what your initial understanding was? Am I understanding properly or is there something there that I have missed?

And then you say " However I will tell you that given a low enough coefficient of friction, a suitable yet modest force can accelerate a rotor to a very high rotational speed because the force would transfer energy to the rotor over time which would accumulate."

Now, you sort of lose me there. To me ... with low enough friction ... any little bit of force can cause easy movement but I wonder how the rotor would accumulate more than it starts out with? Is this from your own research? Or have I totally misunderstood, which is completely possible! Please have patience with me <g> Anyway, welcome back. Elizabeth
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Why use a rotor?

Postby Trickfox » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:52 am

What is the purpose of using a rotor in this high voltage experiments?

Are we trying to get some sort of rotary THRUST here?

Is that what your work is about Hector?

Have you looked at the Flame jet ION generator work by others?

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Research History

Postby Hector » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:41 am

Let me see if I can clarify myself. My work started in 1993 when I read Berlitz’s book the Philadelphia experiment. The chapter on TTBrown described what I immediately recognized as the devices I had seen in an old 1970’s documentary on UFO’s (which I’m hot on the trail of ) that showed this very large metal disk suspended by a power cord tested by the Air Force at what was claimed to be Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

In 1993 all I had were copies of Browns US patents. By 1996 I was working under the Gravitec banner, which gave me access to better technical resources. My experiments have consistently showed the same thrust limitations that Lifters and other devices show to date. In 1996 most of Browns claims came from second hand sources. Back then it was not like now, Browns information was not as easy to come by as it is today.

So since my own experimental data showed the same kind of effect as was claimed by Brown, but at more modest levels I decided to start from scratch and depend on what I could prove not on what TTBrown or his advocates claimed.

By 1998 I had figured out that any device that used Ion wind or had any kind of ionization as part of its thrust mechanism was simply a dead end. This is why all my current research concentrates on fully insulated none ion wind devices. While a lifter has a higher total thrust than insulated devices, the insulated devices operate far more efficiently that lifters and can do so independent of the environment.

Rotary test devices are an easy way to show work, it may not have practicle applications, but it’s a good scientific tool. In vacuum there is no air resistance, so with very good bearings with a very low coefficient of friction it would allow a small force to change the momentum of a device over time to a final velocity, which would conserve energy in the form of rotary motion. This final velocity could be very high, just look at energy storage devices like fly wheels.
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different levels

Postby James Barrett » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:53 am

Hector,

I will leave the scientific discussion here to others. Its beyond interesting but I am not qualified to take part. Perhaps Andrew? I sense that you and he are saying basically the same thing, though perhaps coming from different backgrounds.

I note that you mention the Berlitz book ... (The Philadelphia Experiment )... without naming also the co -author William Moore. This must be ignor William Moore week. <g>. I noticed in his chapter Paul quoted a source that was something Moore had written without actually naming him other than, I think it was " a published source"

Actually I can see much good has come from the mans efforts ( William Moore). You said that you have centered your interest because of what you read in his chapter on Brown. I'll bet there are many out there who might say the same thing. I read the Philadelphia Experiment.

I believe that Andrew Bolland said that too about his introduction to the world of Townsend Brown. And much of the interest that he generated about Townsend Brown had its start in that book. So perhaps the portal that Moore offered has been important, even though for years the rest of his book seems to have led many people on a merry chase down the wrong rabbit hole. Maybe that was vital at the time. Who really knows.

Point is, you are where you are now, doing the work that you are doing and guys like me are just trying to get a handle on Pauls rendition of Townsend Browns life story. Its an important story, I have that figured out already and maybe someday we will get a chance to be able to see how all of these mysterious pieces fit together. JDB
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