what band (frequency)

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

what band (frequency)

Postby Jim » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:30 am

Hi Mikado,

From what I've read so far, the transceivers operate normally on any band. Only the method of transmission has changed.
Here is my impression of how you would treat one of the transceivers:
The transceiver is encased in a metal box, the antenna is replaced with a large spherical ball of lead to block em transmission, you and the transceiver are inside a Faraday cage or deep inside a mountain, a large capacitor zaps the lead ball which kicks the transceiver into gravitic mode, then you carry on broadcasting and receiving (instantaneously) as you would a normal transceiver....
Those who might actually know, gimme a hint, am I close?
Anyway, Two transceivers then more. But first, that's the test we must build.

btw, Mark, you thought you might help? Glad to hear however you might.

Mikado, I recall one other question of yours, why a ham operator? Because they have transceivers and the units are small, not like a broadcasting station that would require 30 tons of lead? When I read that I thought, we won't be doing that test. But with ham operators willing to try at the ready of their small transceivers the only cost is lead which is not cheap but readily available at marine and fishing supply places. If I can find a transceiver guy here on Samui I know where I can get the lead.

I'm willing to face disappointment maybe because of my own ignorance in furthering this experiment and wonder if anyone has tried it or has heard of success or failure.
If not, then let's do it.
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Re: what band (frequency)

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:30 pm

Jim wrote:Hi Mikado,

From what I've read so far, the transceivers operate normally on any band. Only the method of transmission has changed.
Here is my impression of how you would treat one of the transceivers:
The transceiver is encased in a metal box, the antenna is replaced with a large spherical ball of lead to block em transmission, you and the transceiver are inside a Faraday cage or deep inside a mountain, a large capacitor zaps the lead ball which kicks the transceiver into gravitic mode, then you carry on broadcasting and receiving (instantaneously) as you would a normal transceiver....
Those who might actually know, gimme a hint, am I close?
Anyway, Two transceivers then more. But first, that's the test we must build.

btw, Mark, you thought you might help? Glad to hear however you might.

Mikado, I recall one other question of yours, why a ham operator? Because they have transceivers and the units are small, not like a broadcasting station that would require 30 tons of lead? When I read that I thought, we won't be doing that test. But with ham operators willing to try at the ready of their small transceivers the only cost is lead which is not cheap but readily available at marine and fishing supply places. If I can find a transceiver guy here on Samui I know where I can get the lead.

I'm willing to face disappointment maybe because of my own ignorance in furthering this experiment and wonder if anyone has tried it or has heard of success or failure.
If not, then let's do it.


Ok Jim, glad to hear back from you.

Here is a quick link to ebay:


http://cgi.ebay.com/Alinco-DR150T-2m-Vh ... dZViewItem

It is currently going for $87, that would be donut money. At least from my perspective.

Therefore, since an antennae of the EM spectrum type (ie, beam, dipole etc) would not be necessary, wouldn't you be able to purchase a transceiver, build the antennae and perform your experiments? Again, no license necessary.

A little more, there are different bands to the EM spectrum that transceivers are constructed. As with the above, it is a 2 meter VHF.

The next question I have is that under the right conditions, a 50 watt transmitter in certain bands can work the world or most of it when the conditions are right. What sort of transmitter power are you looking at? Are you aware of SWR? How would the impedance be matched to the final stages in the transmitter with the EG antennae? Any ham operator you would approach would ask that question in a heartbeat for they sure wouldn't want the SWR to go higher than 3 and the reflected impedance destroy their finals (there are ways to counter this but now we are talking money). Further, The argument that there wouldn't be an SWR, since the previous antennae is gone and is replaced, would be incorrect in that the transmitter itself is designed to transmit a carrier frequency and that would be modulated by some form of data (ie voice, cw etc) and the antennae is part of the tuned final. Most antennae are 1/4 wave to 1/2 wave and the ratio of standing wave in the transmission line to the antennae is critical for maximum erp (effective radiated power) and as well for any db power gain.

Jim, this is doable but there are a ream of questions that need to be answered. My advice is to purchase 2 transceivers of the same band and place them relatively close (1/4 mi ?) and experiment that way instead of doing it around the world.

Let's clarify something first, frequency and band are not the same. Here goes my memory but there are 7 maybe 8 usable bands. the lowest is 300 hz to 3 khz, 3khz to 30 khz, 30khz to 300khz etc. These are all identified, respectively, as ULF (Ultra Low), VLF (Very Low), and LF (Low). The 2 meter band, as the radio in the link above, would be the next band, VHF (Very High Frequency) and that extends between 30Mhz to 300 Mhz.

As you can see, frequency is an element of band.

I am not trying to overwhelm you or detract from anything you are doing but I want you to be aware that asking a Ham Operator to attach any type of antennae to their radio without being able to answer certain questions would be like asking them for the blood of thier first child <g>

My best advice is to use a transceiver that uses Beam Power Pentodes as a final. The reason? Vacuum tubes are more forgiving for impedance mismatches than semiconductors.

Mikado

PS: Paul, bet you know what a Beam Power Pentode is and who invented it.
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see the connection

Postby grinder » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:40 pm

Ah Mikado, now I see why you were compelled to join our forum. You input is needed. Just my response Jim but I am impressed with this guys knowledge here, and isn't it strange that he is here at the same time you are asking the questions you need answered. Hello out there. Getting that funny feeling on the back of my neck again. clue the Twilight Zone music. grinder
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Re: see the connection

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:44 pm

grinder wrote:Ah Mikado, now I see why you were compelled to join our forum. You input is needed. Just my response Jim but I am impressed with this guys knowledge here, and isn't it strange that he is here at the same time you are asking the questions you need answered. Hello out there. Getting that funny feeling on the back of my neck again. clue the Twilight Zone music. grinder


Oh hell Grinder, ain't that smart, I missed two bands as I was typing, the MF and the HF band.

That memory thing going on.

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i knew that

Postby Jim » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:57 pm

Hi Mikado, Are you really Japanese or is that just your mystique. Apologies either way.

I can understand since you know so much more than me that you will mount a defence on why something is not possible. It seems sometimes the better educated the less likely for discovery. My education I'm sure is a pittance of yours but for that reason I think I get to look around more than you. I'm not much of anything particular but sometimes I think that I have a certain vision, based on my compulsion of getting beyond rockets and the carburetor.

Obviously the experiment of the two transceivers needs all the help it can get and yours is most appreciated. Always think the worst and hope for the best. But you don't get best by wishing. You have to think the worst first. And not just light worst but thee worst beyond bratwurst which of course is a whole nuther subject. Personally I hate it. All I want is to think my happy thoughts. But the fact is, the world is at stake and it needs our help.

When I look up and see what I've written I remind myself that I'm the new guy and I don't have what I came to you for, electrogravitic communication, and no one on the forum could enlighten me. But I've found a genuine bunch of folks here and I'll try to answer any questions, but the one about me leaving my email and you send your login password and we'll do it manually, thus bypassing the incredible spam surge, has still got me stymied.
Jim
ps, why would I hang around so long
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Re: i knew that

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:13 pm

Jim wrote:Hi Mikado, Are you really Japanese or is that just your mystique. Apologies either way.


If I told you why the Mikado, you would probably laugh and say that I haven't grown up yet.

Jim wrote:I can understand since you know so much more than me that you will mount a defence on why something is not possible. It seems sometimes the better educated the less likely for discovery. My education I'm sure is a pittance of yours but for that reason I think I get to look around more than you. I'm not much of anything particular but sometimes I think that I have a certain vision, based on my compulsion of getting beyond rockets and the carburetor.


Well Jim, I have always felt that if you can read a book and comprehend then that is all you need and that diploma along with the correct change will get you a cup of Joe. I still have the eye of a boy.

Jim wrote:Obviously the experiment of the two transceivers needs all the help it can get and yours is most appreciated. Always think the worst and hope for the best. But you don't get best by wishing. You have to think the worst first. And not just light worst but thee worst beyond bratwurst which of course is a whole nuther subject. Personally I hate it. All I want is to think my happy thoughts. But the fact is, the world is at stake and it needs our help.


It is at stake but then so is growing up, especially when you enter puberty.


Jim wrote:When I look up and see what I've written I remind myself that I'm the new guy and I don't have what I came to you for, electrogravitic communication, and no one on the forum could enlighten me.


Wanna bet? You sound like the young man that went to the old sage and demanded to be told all the knowledge of the world while he stood on one foot. Patience, it will come.

OK, a tidbit (I normally don't give these, the forum will tell you). I believe that Dr. Brown needed Mass for that would be related to the power of the transmitter. Thus the need for large amounts of lead when using a commercial transmitter. Think small, then big.

Jim wrote:But I've found a genuine bunch of folks here and I'll try to answer any questions, but the one about me leaving my email and you send your login password and we'll do it manually, thus bypassing the incredible spam surge, has still got me stymied.




I posted for you to send me a PM and I would forward you my Email.


Mikado
Jim
ps, why would I hang around so long [/quote]
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not with my bare hands

Postby Jim » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:22 pm

Mikado,
Actually I'm not your guy for building anything. Don't come back to me with your problems of not how to build it. That's what we're looking for.
Minus the not. If you can solve all the reasons you suggest it won't work then we're left with what will work. You put forth problems but do you have any suggestions on solving those problems?

Sorry to brow beat you but truly, your problems re the success of this, if they are, need solving and since you presented them, what can you do to help. If half of your gift is pointing out problems then the other half should be solving them, yinyang.

Hey, 21 years in Hong Kong, a great place.

Jim
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Farnsworth

Postby grinder » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:27 pm

Well, look at this folks. Now I know why Paul was picked to write this book. (Beyond the fact that he is the right writer, look at the ODD connection that has suddenly surfaced. Look for ODD folks.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geupgvhn1Fa ... acuum_tube

especially maybe this

One of the proposed designs for a fusion reactor is basically a tube, the Farnsworth-Hirsch Fusor.

EXCUSE ME. THE FARNSWORTH FUSOR? AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE SEEING CONNECTIONS? HELLO PAUL. grinder
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hey guys

Postby grinder » Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:37 pm

Jim!

You thought that this process would be EASY? That you could just show up , asking for the gravitational radio and it would just be handed over? Don't you realize the part that you seem to be playing in all of this?

Its an important part but you are right, you are the youngster in all of this and a little patience and maybe just a dab of respect for stuff you don't know about yet, is in order.

We have all gone through this. Welcome . But be careful of the assumptions you make of the group and of yourself until you have learned just a bit more about what is happening here. This situation is not easy to understand. Half of us are standing around going "Why am I here?" but if we hang on and respect each other to the utmost, I think we will all find out. Just my coffee moneys worth. grinder
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Re: not with my bare hands

Postby Mikado14 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:06 pm

Jim wrote:Mikado,
Actually I'm not your guy for building anything.


Apparently, I assumed that you were building this. I was wrong

Jim wrote: Don't come back to me with your problems of not how to build it. That's what we're looking for.
Minus the not. If you can solve all the reasons you suggest it won't work then we're left with what will work. You put forth problems but do you have any suggestions on solving those problems?


I didn't come to you. You came here. Anything worth doing is worth doing yourself. I was merely trying to give you guidance. You want answers to questions. POST THEM. I will choose what to answer and if you really are ready.


Jim wrote:Sorry to brow beat you but truly, your problems re the success of this, if they are, need solving and since you presented them, what can you do to help. If half of your gift is pointing out problems then the other half should be solving them, yinyang.


My gift is not pointing out problems. My gift helps me solve problems. However, after 8 1/2 years of teaching I have learned much. I am merely attempting to help teach you to fish and not give you a fish. Therefore, don't expect the solution to be given to you directly, you must earn it.


Mikado
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What did I miss

Postby Trickfox » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:28 am

Oh my!!!
how do we persuade this Canadian free spirit to read carefully everything in this forum over the past year. We have so much information in this forum that it's become a monster database on impossibly complex technology that everyone wants to reduce to a few practical tools.

Jim, I was not aware that electrogravitic communication absolutely needed to be rediscovered actually. Why does anyone want or need with a PoP (as you call it) of this system? Is there some advantage to carrying 100 lbs of lead to listen to your newfangled IPOD?

I see a wonderfully creative website that someone with a wonderful MAC put together (oh, how I envy you Jim). I see someone with vision in this forum. Someone also surrounded by other visionaries. Patience is a valuable visionary practice as well, -so I have learned.

Besides, people here just want to build flying saucers and fly away right?

Don't worry though, we allready know about applegate and the "kill yourself for your god" crowd.

Ever see "close encouters of the third kind"? you will soon be experiencing some of the same feelings as some of the characters in the movie. That's sort of how I felt anyway.

Did anyone else feel this?

Trickfox
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One more tidbit.

Postby Mikado14 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:45 am

Jim,

I have pondered upon your post titled "not with my bare hands" and I must say the following.

Where you wish to go, I have walked. The road is fraught with obstacles and gold is what makes some but not all go away.

Since you would not be building the device, any instructions I would give you would be falling upon untrained hands.

Here is your tidbit: The coupling of the coax cable to the "sphere" is not direct and is better accomplished through mutual coupling. You do not want your "high voltage kick start" to find its way into the transceiver. I referred to that 27 years ago as charging the tank. I did not know what I had at that time but I do now.

Here is something totally different. I found that if you use the human body as a conducting medium and charge the body with a high voltage charge and then modulate it, you can hear it in your brain. I tried this on someone who was deaf, it worked. I tried to patent it but the leakage current was too high for a medical instrument (>10uA), that was 1978. I moved on with other ideas. Do you see my point?

I wish you the best and hope you find the solutions you seek.

Mikado
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The Connection is What? Me?

Postby Paul S. » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:10 am

grinder wrote:EXCUSE ME. THE FARNSWORTH FUSOR? AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE SEEING CONNECTIONS? HELLO PAUL.


We've been talking about fusion elsewhere in this forum for some time, grinder. Remember this thread?

http://forum.ttbrown.com/viewtopic.php?t=329

Morgan did quote back to me once certain portions of my Farnsworth book, implying that the insights revealed there would be useful here.

But I'm wondering, just what connection are you suddenly seeing? What about this particular article -- this history of vacuum tubes -- caught your fancy?

--PS
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aka "The Perfesser"
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impatience is not a virtue

Postby Jim » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:05 am

Mikado,

First, apologies for my flippant attitude. I looked at some of the stuff I wrote yesterday and realized that my impatience was once again taking the wheel whereas at the time I thought I was just being witty, well, half anyway.

However I am glad to have confessed to not being a builder. I think the last time I built something it was a spice rack in shop class. The other kids' projects looked comparatively like works of art and the C I got was a gift. I know it's more satisfying to build something yourself but I don't have the talent for it. What I did discover was if I had an idea about something I learned to seek out professional help, to find as good a craft person as possible so that I don't have to fall back on my shlunky building skills. There is an old story about Benjamin Franklin who told the military to build a boat that travels under the sea that could scuttle their enemies from beneath. A question from the back was, just how do we build such a boat, to which Ben Franklin said, I gave you the idea, you build it.

To Grinder, a POP means proof of principle or proof of performance and to successfully achieve gravity radio would not only answer the communication problem with Unity but would actually pave the way for a remote controlled POP of gravity control employing a table top model.
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impatience

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:57 pm

Jim,


Sometimes I think there is nothing wrong at all with impatience. I confess to being one of the worst containers for that trait, but I have learned that it sometimes makes things more difficult. I learned to curb that a little once I got a little older, but it is still there.

Townsend Brown, I understand was much like that too, though many people thought he was the soul of patience. In actuality, according to some of the material that Paul has uncovered, he was much like a stream of water racing downhill. His creativeness would flow into an area for awhile but it never stayed long and if he could he probably would have echoed Franklins words. He was a marvelous engineer but he knew also that there SHOULD be others out there with the time and talent to move his ideas from just that to solid working principles. I see, in a way, that we are faced with the same situation.

You use the phrase "table top modle". Since I don't really know what you are describing here the only thing that comes to my mind is Farnsworths fusor. Didn't they call that a "tabletop" thing too? Hirsch ? something about anodes?

Forgive me, Sometimes I make connections without having a solid bridge to them and people trying to follow me usually go .... huh? But there is a common denominator here. I just wish I knew what it was. Paul? did I just nosedive mentally or is there something here that flys for you? Anybody else just pick up on that thread?

David, you mentioned that in the 60s

"They were willing to look at everything and anything that would get them to where they wanted to go and one of the most important things they looked at was ESP, because they knew that if they could nail that down the rest would fall into place. It was a good strategy and it did move them ahead, but like a lot of things they went off course and got lost in the fog."

You want to try to go back there and look again?

Elizabeth
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