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no correlatons

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:09 pm
by grinder
I keep thinking that we are trying to see this radiation as something we already understand.

When it is not. Very simple.

All our mindsets are based on trying to recognize what we know and when we run into something that does not fit ... we try to jam it into that box anyway.

Its like listening to what kevin has been trying to say. You can't take what he is trying to say and explain it by forces we know already. It just doesn't belong in that box.

So thats the red herring that I see here Mikado. We keep trying to explain something that we have no brain patterns for yet. How do we get there from here when there are no roads.

I know, I can practically see Elizabeth handing us tools and simply saying " build it" and I feel like I am standing on this empty plain with endless miles all untouched .... and she says .... build ..... right.

You are the guy with the needlenosed pliars. Maybe this kind of road can be built without concrete?

Its too early in the morning for me. I just know that all of the sudden its been hitting me what this all really means and its taking me awhile. grinder

Re: no correlatons

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 2:29 pm
by Mikado14
grinder wrote:So thats the red herring that I see here Mikado. We keep trying to explain something that we have no brain patterns for yet. How do we get there from here when there are no roads.

I know, I can practically see Elizabeth handing us tools and simply saying " build it" and I feel like I am standing on this empty plain with endless miles all untouched .... and she says .... build ..... right.


There are 360 degrees you can choose to start a journey. I believe that you might be standing on that plain but at least you are moving in the direction of the correct quadrant. Remember what Daniel Boone said.

grinder wrote:You are the guy with the needlenosed pliars. Maybe this kind of road can be built without concrete?


Most roads start being built in the mind and usually as a dream.

Mikado

What did he say?

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 8:20 pm
by grinder
Now I am REALLY feeling lost and sort of stupid today but just what did Daniel Boone say. It wasn't " Go West Young man" I think that was Horace Greely, right . And the only other thing that comes into my head is something about the fact that the countryside was getting crowded, he could see his neighbors smoke in the distance. But what else did he say that I should know?

I do feel like I am standing in some sort of uncharted land though. No signs no markers no INSTRUCTIONS but with the really strong urge that I have to do something! How absolutely nuts is that. Just standing here on a crossroads that I can't even see, waiting to figure out how to get started.

What Radomire said on the other post is important though I think ... if it is up to each one of us like Mr. Twigsnapper said, to understand our history and then to plot what is our responsible path in the future. Thats the real answer to this. And I guess that you can't turn to your neighbor because its up to him to see his own path . Hopefully somehow all that will focus in a certain direction. But we will all have gotten there on our own steam and that will make the destination worth reaching.

Don't expect me to make sense. I'm just standing here trying to figure which foot to start off with. grinder

Re: What did he say?

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:43 am
by Mikado14
grinder wrote:Now I am REALLY feeling lost and sort of stupid today but just what did Daniel Boone say. It wasn't " Go West Young man" I think that was Horace Greely, right . And the only other thing that comes into my head is something about the fact that the countryside was getting crowded, he could see his neighbors smoke in the distance. But what else did he say that I should know?



No grinder, your not stupid. Perhaps a little forgetful for I do believe I may have posted it before and I thought you might remember but it may be fitting. Boone had been missing on one of his forays and was presumed lost. When he finally returned he was told what those that waited thought and that was that he was lost and he responded with, " Lost? I wasn't lost, just a little confused." See my point?

grinder wrote:I do feel like I am standing in some sort of uncharted land though. No signs no markers no INSTRUCTIONS but with the really strong urge that I have to do something! How absolutely nuts is that. Just standing here on a crossroads that I can't even see, waiting to figure out how to get started.




A test pilot wanted to fly a new plane that he was told about. However, it wasn't built yet. He was very impatient and felt like a dunsel. All he did was complain that he was sitting around and doing nothing. What he didn't realize was that he had a very instrumental part but it wasn't time. Patience, your time is coming, just keep working in security and keep asking questions and most of all....be a sponge. There are some wonderous things over the horizon, all you have to do is to follow what you feel is the truth and be patient....... your time is coming.

grinder wrote:Don't expect me to make sense. I'm just standing here trying to figure which foot to start off with. grinder


In the army, you always led with your left for you would parry from your right....I vote for the left foot.

Mikado

A single step

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:27 am
by Gewis
grinder wrote:Don't expect me to make sense. I'm just standing here trying to figure which foot to start off with. grinder


Either foot being equally unknown, does it matter?

Whether or not there was a personal connection between Kozyrev and Brown, though I do believe you when you say there is, there is an obvious connection between their ideas. If they came across ideas of faster-than-light radiation propagation independently, rather than Kozyrev getting it from Brown, I think it would add more credibility. I haven't yet been able to find confirmation about Kozyrev's detector. Indeed, that's one of the hardest parts of all of this stuff: From Brown in the 1920s to Schauberger in the 1940s to Podkletnov in the 1990s and everyone and everywhen in between, there are too many hints and not enough confirmation. The wide variety of related fringe phenomena strongly suggest this is real, even if the understanding and explanations are vague or incomprehensible right now.

That's mostly why I've been quiet on these boards lately. I'm not trying to figure out which foot to step off with. I'm walking, but I don't think I'm in any position to say, "Hey, come look over here!" There's too much wandering, too much speculation with deep implications without any sort of coherent picture to it all. If the picture is inconsistent or self-contradictory, then it's hard to know which parts are bunk and which parts are not. Models are not just for "Aha!" moments, but for actually predicting and controlling intended consequences. General relativity allows us to have GPS. Quantum mechanics allows us to have transistors and solar panels, with doped semiconductors. Sidereal radiation, or whatever names we want to apply to it, is almost a complete unknown. We don't even know that it connects with Kozyrev's radiation, or these other names we think we want to give to it. It's too scattered, only hints and riddles.

It's natural that you should feel lost in uncharted land. It's going to be a lot harder to chart it as long as the whole thing is clouded in fog. Here's my advice: start with the solid ground you know is beneath your feet, and probe from there. Make your start location the origin of your coordinate system, so to speak, and reach out and map out what you know from where you are. Most things here, we don't know where they are in relation to our own coordinate systems, so we have no way to map them out. Yet. It's perfectly okay. A lot of things have already been set aside and picked up later in these forums. More will surely be that way.

In the mean time, I'm going to keep reading posts and links for something that I can connect to what I know.

-Gewis

Something to bite into

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:06 am
by Mikado14
Gewis wrote:
In the mean time, I'm going to keep reading posts and links for something that I can connect to what I know.

-Gewis


I like you Gewis: here is a name, if it is something you can currently sink your teeth into, go for it, if not, I'll give you another.

Francisco Pacheco

Mikado

banner in the mud

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:59 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
Thank you so much for the name of Francisco Pacheco. I am mortified that I had never heard of him before your mention of his name for Gewis.

It makes me almost physically ill that his name was not known to me. But now that I recognize that, thanks to you Sir ..... In my own personal life I will never forget his name or his story. And I intend to learn more. Its as if I have walked over, looked down and found his banner encased in mud. It SHOULD NOT BE THERE.

And in the very strangest of mental connections I understand a little more the feelings that Mr. Twigsnapper described when he mentioned the " little girls body that he chanced upon in Germany just at the close of the war." Actually looking back on it "chance" I am sure had nothing to do with it.

Mr. Twigsnapper has said since that he has always privately considered himself that little girls "knight" and her color (pink) he shared with me once was a combination of the red of battle and white of purity and hope for the future. So in his heart he carries her banner into "battle" with him every day.

I have wondered then, knowing the kind of impact this man has had on those around him ( and us now too) I have wondered ... what if .... he had never spotted that "flash of pink" as he described it. Never "happened" to be in a fragile mental state at just that moment. And never happened to have been assigned as the driver to a man who would see what was happening, recognize its significance and then .... put his hand on Mr. Twignapper (ORileys) shoulder. What would have been the realities of our world right now if that had not happened.

And so it is with another banner in the mud and I thank you for doing this Mikado. Very Much. Elizabeth

this one?

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:47 pm
by Radomir
Mikado:

Is this the one you're talking about, as I assume (and not the Spanish painter)...?

http://www.franciscopacheco.org/

R.

Re: this one?

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:06 pm
by Mikado14
Radomir wrote:Mikado:

Is this the one you're talking about, as I assume (and not the Spanish painter)...?

http://www.franciscopacheco.org/

R.


Yes

Mikado

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:11 pm
by kevin.b
Elizabeth Helen Drake,
Draw a line in the mud, leave the past behind, make sure the future is better.
Forgive them, for they could not know, the time, as such as time is, was not right, it is now.
kevin

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:43 pm
by flowperson
Hello All:

David Mamet, a playwriter from Chicago wrote a wonderful play titled, The Water Engine. A film was made of this story in the 1980's I believe, and if you can find a copy, it's well worth the price. It's a wonderful portrayal of the issues that Mr. Pacheco lkely dealt with on his invention.

flow.... :wink:

Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition!

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:55 am
by Gewis
First thing that came up was this Spanish artist who was a censor for the Inquisition, making sure all art was religiously correct.

But this other fellow,

http://www.mothersalert.org/pacheco.html

is significantly more confirmed than some of these others. He was on 60 minutes in 1980, but apparently they only showed his lawnmower choking up because it was too fuel-rich. In addition to all the biographical details and awful things that happened to him in promoting his invention, there are diagrams and drawings and hopefully a means of reproducing it. Patents are easily found on google.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=YckdAA ... co+pacheco
http://www.google.com/patents?id=uSYyAA ... co+pacheco

Right now, not knowing all the details, but currently trying to get them, I am curious about electrode corrosion and cycleability of his design. The magnesium electrodes react chemically with the electrolyte, producing magnesium hydroxide and releasing hydrogen until the magnesium electrode is gone. The increasing amount of magnesium hydroxide makes the electrolyte more basic, reducing output with time.

Of course, considering the conversations had round these parts, I now must ask: "What am I missing?" It's not really the free energy we like to love, but it looks like a very useful invention. We can then use the magnesium hydroxide in cleaning agents! And intercollating graphite sheets, though I've only done that with potassium hydroxide. :) The "what am I missing?" has to then be, "How does this connect with T.T. Brown?"

put a marker down

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:54 am
by twigsnapper
Gewis,

The best thing to do at this point is just put a "mental marker" on the spot here and go ahead with other collecting other information that does obviously have a connection.

Eventually it becomes simply a matter of going back at a later time to complete the process. It takes a certain amount of trust in the future to even bother to do that.

Anything that makes no sense at the moment, throw a flag down on it and go on.

twigsnapper

FLAG

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:41 pm
by Trickfox
here is my flag (an image) it will make it easier to find
Image

great flag

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:15 pm
by Elizabeth Helen Drake
Thats a great flag Trickfox. I like it.

The mental image I had when I saw it was Paul returning to the the middle of a field where he THOUGHT he had left his foxhounds, to find your flag in the center and everybody gone.

He has laughed that his saying is " Yup, I'm the leader ... Where'd everybody go????"

And you notice that he has been quiet ... which means ....( sorry Victoria, beat you to it ...".THURSDAY PAUL huh, huh, huh?") this new chapter is coming together and he doesn't want to get off the track.

I see something happening which I think is WONDERFUL and I want to congratulate all of you involved. It might have been started when Mr. Twigsnapper mentioned (in his wierd and wonderful way ), the simple word .... Concrete ...

but thats whats happening here, this comparing of notes and ideas .... this is not wild fantasy wishful thinking here ... these are concrete thougts that will stand up in any company. I don't understand much of the technical language but I sense that it is drawn from a good well. And as someone pointed out, this is not your standard concrete thinking, this is entirely different, built out of new material!

I encourage anyone else out there who is thinking about jumping into the forum to come on!!!! .... the water is really fine and the company is great.

We have all learned from our experience with Justice League though, please no cannonballing! This is a quiet, respectful exchange of information. The intellectual food fights can be fun and I look forward to them but the object is to work together toward a positive goal, not shred each other to pieces for ..... nothing .....

So don't wait for the conversation to slow down. Its reaching its own tempo .... and soon I think we will not even be finished with our discussion by the time Paul posts another Chapter and our attention will be turned and fired with even more information. Pick a topic that fires your thoughts and join us, Please!

I liked what you said Mr. Twigsnapper and this method has worked well with me. When you find a mystery that remains a puzzlement, don't get bogged down, just throw down your marker for others and press onward. Someone will help with it, your marker might encourage a thought process in someone else that you would not have been able to generate ... but would not have happened without your marker to draw attention ....or you may be able to return to it later with the answer you missed at the time.

As Dr. Brown I am sure would have urged in this
" Go Forth!" Elizabeth