High voltage Generation

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.

Postby Chris Knight » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:32 pm

Right, unfortunately in the case of armor and projectiles, which it is well suited for, it turns to dust, which can be inhaled, and then you end up with problems.

It's great for tipping projectiles because it has a density of 1.7 times lead (about 18.9 grams/cc). Compare that to the most dense materials known, osmium and iridium (22.4 and 22.42 grams/cc), and you can see it packs quite a punch.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think depleted uranium armor is a ceramic-based material that when hit by a projectile, the impacted ceramic pulverizes, expands, and shreds the projectile. And of course, any projectile using depleted uranium would explode and disperse the dust. That's where the dust becomes a hazard.

Depleted uranium has a radioactivity of about 40% of regular uranium, and emits (mostly) alpha particles. Alpha particles aren't all that dangerous and can be easiliy shielded, but when they are inhaled, it will sit in the lungs and continuously damage the body from the inside.

It only has a dielectric constant of 22, but it has an intrinsic electrical conductivity about the same as GaAs and can withstand much higher temperatures than either Si or GaAs, meaning it can be used in more adverse environments.

A short paper published by the US DOE can be found here: http://web.ead.anl.gov/uranium/pdf/potentialuses.pdf.

We did consider using steak as a dielectric material at one time, but my in-laws kept showing up around dinner-time... :wink:
Last edited by Chris Knight on Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rocky » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:06 am

Paul wrote:

But I am unconvinced as to the authenticity of these photographs, whether they are doctored "photo illustrations" as opposed to actual real-time photos. Sorry, I just know first hand how much can be done with Photoshop.

Is there any way to verify the authenticity of these photos in the Photoshop era?


I have seen these pictures at various locations and believe some originally came from an Edwards Air Force Base photos gallery. Now the Edwards links are dead and only “copiesâ€
Last edited by Rocky on Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Borderland Sciences

Postby ETernalightwithin » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:28 am

Trickfox wrote:Andrew
those diodes and caps are usually pretty difficult to obtain.
I would say JLN's website may also be a good source.
Trickfox


Why not try Maxwell's High Volt supercaps, Bwuahahaha!

by the way, flame jet generator in space is useless. Need some way to get voltage without combustion.
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what?

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:28 am

I am sorry for being dense ..... but what the heck are you guys talking about here ETernalightwithin and Trickfox? Your heading ETLW mentions " Borderlands" ..... so where is the discussion that goes with that or did you jump ponds here? I'm just trying to keep up! And this is hard!

So ..... if the Brown saucer can not work in space with the flame jet generator to generate the power ........... where did it work?

And, oh by the way ...... does the discussion of UD dust being dangerous for your health when it is part of an exploding projectile ..Your comment too " Chris"... strike any of you as being a wildly ironic statement? Elizabeth
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Re: what?

Postby Mikado14 » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:42 am

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:So ..... if the Brown saucer can not work in space with the flame jet generator to generate the power ........... where did it work?


Where does it work, not did. In the atmosphere or it could even work with a chemical rocket, as long as the fluid medium is there.

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:And, oh by the way ...... does the discussion of UD dust being dangerous for your health when it is part of an exploding projectile ..Your comment too " Chris"... strike any of you as being a wildly ironic statement?


Sort of like dying of lead poisoning from a bullet?

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Postby Rocky » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:16 am

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:

And, oh by the way ...... does the discussion of UD dust being dangerous for your health when it is part of an exploding projectile ..Your comment too " Chris"... strike any of you as being a wildly ironic statement?


In this case dangerous to both parties. Many believe the Gulf War Syndrome is associated with the use of DU ammo. In the Balkans an increase in leukemia has been documented in areas DU was used. And that doesn’t even get into exposure our troops endure due to the use of DU in the M1 Abrams armor.

The reality of using depleted uranium (DU) if far worse than the military cares to admit. The DU anti-armor rounds actually burn on impact generating a dust of uranium oxide. This dust can create heavy metal poisoning. It may also enter the biosphere, since oxidized uranium is very mobile in the environment. What the average person doesn’t know is that even DU contains tract amounts of plutonium and uranium 236, both manmade radioactive isotopes. This is contrary to the belief that DU is made from uranium separated before it is used in a nuclear reactor.

Chris Wrote:

I think I read somewhere that a dielectric coating of depleted uranium was utilized on the body. Whether that's true or not is a separate issue, but the use of a dielectric coating would be an additional connection with Brown's work.


Chris, you may be right about the B2 coating. I ran across an article that stated the A-10 Thunderbolt II uses a DU plating as part of its armor system. So, it’s likely the B2 may have a similar system since it had no defensive weapons (in theory). I am a little surprised due to the weight of uranium.

Why do we use this stuff when we could substitute tungsten? It’s cheap, and we have 500,000 metric tons lying around!

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Re: what?

Postby ETernalightwithin » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:17 am

Lol, sorry Elizabeth. I have that feeling a lot here, I thought it was just me!
I did a little short pond jump. The other pond is right above you in "Lifters in a vacuum" I was a little behind in the threads and was responding to Mikado in page 6 in his post about asking Chris his motives.
Here, in HV generation, Trickfox is referring to a kit from Borderlands, I believe.
I am looking for a substance I can use to make my saucers out of. I have heard that Dr. Brown used a mixture of lead oxide and glycerine, commonly referred to as "letharge" to make his capacitors with. If I'm not mistaken, he made his saucers out of aluminum?

It is known that peskovites, rare earth ceramics, show weird effects when you put electric potential through them. Since substances with high-k's are needed, I'm just throwing a couple of questions out there to see if people here know of any "cheaper" high-k dielectrics to use.

If my hard to find google source is accurate, letharge has a dielectric breakdown "k" value of 25. This is a lot lower than I was expecting.
Barium Titanate and some other related substances have a k value of ~120-1200.

While I don't mind throwing money down to get knowledge, I was just throwing these different questions out to see if people knew of some cheap substances that had the required material characteristics for the B-B effect.

The question about the flame jet was one of distance. Sure these things would be great for traveling on the earth. But for two reasons I dont' like them at all. One being that is still tied to hydrocarbons and still being rather unfriendly to environment/earth. The second reason being that you need to not have that type of limited fuel source if you want to galaxy hop.
I'd rather not go from comet to asteroid gathering up needed hydrocarbons to fuel my flame jet generator.

Perhaps Bedini's new invention could help us here? "Check out his newest book with Bearden! Very very exciting and extremely cool!"

As far as irony, unless you're referring to Brown's lung problem. I dunno.

ETlight

P.S. Why would anyone use UD or ceramic-type coating? I mean these things are brittle right.? Sure they're hard, but you smack it and it cracks off. Bye bye birdie. No more levitating effect :shock:

Elizabeth Helen Drake wrote:I am sorry for being dense ..... but what the heck are you guys talking about here ETernalightwithin and Trickfox? Your heading ETLW mentions " Borderlands" ..... so where is the discussion that goes with that or did you jump ponds here? I'm just trying to keep up! And this is hard!

So ..... if the Brown saucer can not work in space with the flame jet generator to generate the power ........... where did it work?

And, oh by the way ...... does the discussion of UD dust being dangerous for your health when it is part of an exploding projectile ..Your comment too " Chris"... strike any of you as being a wildly ironic statement? Elizabeth
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Postby ETernalightwithin » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:22 am

Rocky wrote:Why do we use this stuff when we could substitute tungsten? It’s cheap, and we have 500,000 metric tons lying around!

Rocky


Tungsten is massive, but what are it's conductivity and breakdown values?
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Postby Chris Knight » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:33 am

I think rocky was referring to the use of tungsten for projectile tipping and armor plating due to its density (and relative non-toxicity). Bismuth also has a high density, and is used widely as a replacement for lead.

Both can be integrated into ceramics and coatings, but are conductive. Uranium oxide is better, partially because it has a K=22 and we've got so much lying around.
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Postby ETernalightwithin » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:38 am

Several UFO books talk about the exterior of the saucer being lined with a bismuth coating.

Chris Knight wrote:I think rocky was referring to the use of tungsten for projectile tipping and armor plating due to its density (and relative non-toxicity). Bismuth also has a high density, and is used widely as a replacement for lead.

Both can be integrated into ceramics and coatings, but are conductive. Uranium oxide is better, partially because it has a K=22 and we've got so much lying around.
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Bismuth

Postby Rocky » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:36 am

ETernalightwithin,

Chris got it exactly right; I was referring to DU’s uses for armor piercing projectiles and armor plating (due to the density of the mesh). I was surprise it would be used on the armor plating for aircraft due to the density.

As to bismuth. I have also seen several articles on the net, which refer to laminated magnesium and bismuth. To me the most intriguing part of this idea is the possible effects of charges passing through varying density elements.

The speed of light in a translucent or transparent material is different than that of the speed of light in a vacuum. As a result we see refraction of a beam of light as it passes through dissimilar index of refraction medium. The index of refraction is based on the speed of light in a given medium compared to the speed of light in a vacuum. Generally, the denser the material the greater the index of refraction, or the slower light moves through that material. Different frequency light will be refracted different amounts resulting in rainbows.

As electromagnetic waves move through a medium, they are interfered with by interactions with the charges in the medium’s atoms. Normally all the effects cancel out as the wave moves through the material and no unusual radiation is created. However it is possible to create shock waves in which the interference travels faster than possible for the photons in the medium. This condition leads to constructive interference. Cherenkov radiation is the blue light emitted by water in reactors as electrons move faster than the speed of light in that material.

I have wondered for some time if I could not create a similar condition in laminated metals of different density by passing high voltage electric charges through these metals. If there is a coupling between the gravity field and electromagnetic field, then by creating a condition whereby the electromagnetic field moves faster than the charge can in that medium, you might be able to create a condition of constructive or destructive interference for gravity. The more layers of varying density medium, the greater the effect. Also, exactly what happens to the charge as it meets the different density refractive index interface? Just something I have been curious about.

I purchased some bismuth for diamagnetic experiments and have been intending to build a small sputtering device and play around with some thinly laminated materials just to see what the effects may be at high voltages. It’s on my list of things to do.

Rocky
Last edited by Rocky on Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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what about mica ?.....

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:59 am

Rocky,

This is an interesting statement from my end of it :
You said

"The speed of light in a translucent or transparent material is different than that of the speed of light in a vacuum. As a result we see refraction of a beam of light as it passes through dissimilar index of refraction medium. The index of refraction is based on the speed of light in a given medium compared to the speed of light in a vacuum. Generally, the denser the material the greater the index of refraction, or the slower light moves through that material. Different frequency light will be refracted different amounts resulting in rainbows"

You say generally. And for some reason I thought of Mica. Now I am not a geologist, nor a scientist. But just humor me here. What role might Mica have in all of this? If nothing comes to mind just forget that I mentioned it.

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Postby Rocky » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:54 am

Elizabeth,

Mica is a group of monoclinic silicate minerals, which have almost perfect basal cleavage. Due to the basal cleavage they will tear apart in thin layers. Micas typically have good dielectric properties and are thermal insulators. Strangely enough micas are biaxial, meaning that the index of refraction is different on the three crystallographic axis. This subject is really closely related to permittivity, polarization, birefringence and other factors affecting the dielectric constant of materials. Perhaps that is your the source of your intuition.


As to the “generallyâ€
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The times

Postby Mikado14 » Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:50 pm

[quote="Rocky"]
Perhaps that is your the source of your intuition.


As to the “generallyâ€
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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just skipping along

Postby Elizabeth Helen Drake » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:49 pm

No way to explain. I was just skipping along the top of the offered information like a flat stone over a lake and one of the first things that caught my attention was Rockys use of the word " Rainbow"

And then of course .... I started wondering.

If that little comment leaves you in the woods then just wait for it ..... Elizabeth
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