PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Here is where we focus on separating the facts from the fiction, identifying what we KNOW from what what we DON'T KNOW about the life and work of Townsend Brown

Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:29 am

I see you and Mr. T are reading the same book tonight, Nate.

Linda, these folks have a chronology which says that TTB demonstrated his antigravity effect for the USAF in 1953. I know that was when Project Winterhaven started but i wasn't aware that he actually gave a demonstration.
http://informantnews.com/joesufos/nazi/8.html

Are they correct or are they confused?

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James Corum

Postby Rose » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:57 am

AM mentioned this guy earlier and gave us a bit of background on him. I found mention of him again on Al Bielek's site.
http://www.bielek.com/corum.htm

If he's still with us, I would guess that he's in Morgantown WV.

I don't know what to do with this. It may not be at all important, but for the record;


Dr. James F Corum looks at the Philadelphia experiment through the critical eyes of a scientist.


In the late 1970's, he recruited a team of scientists to, for fun, see if there was any scientific basis for the description of events that occurred during the Philadelphia experiment as expressed in the book, "The Philadelphia Experiment", by Berlitz and Moore.

Much to everybody's astonishment, there was.

In 1994 at the Tesla Symposium at Colorado Springs, he, along with his brother K.L. Corum Ph.D. and J.F.X Daum, PhD., presented their findings in a paper titled "Tesla's Egg of Columbus, Radar Stealth, The Torsion Tensor, and the Philadelphia Experiment"

They were, in a laboratory, able to replicate radar invisibility with their "egg of Columbus" apparatus.

Their initial conclusion was as follows:

"The analysis would appear to lend credence to the hypothesis that something more than mythology is involved, and it renders plausible the conclusion that sufficient motivation exists to actually conduct a "Philadelphia Experiment" to examine radar stealth on ships with electric drives. Independent of whether our assumed values are practical or not, the analysis, which uses no phenomenology that wasn't known subsequent to 1938, would probably have brought WWII Naval investigators to the point of radar stealth experimentation. In fact, it would have been derelict behavior for the Defense Science Research Board not to have conducted such experiments if it were aware of the Phenomenology (as it must have been) in 1943. Such an approach to stealth, however, is impractical and certainly would be of little interest, as such, to the military today."

His paper is, as he says, to serve as a "basis for discussion" for "critical, not skeptical" scientific thinking about the possibilities of scientific explanation for the events surrounding the Philadelphia Experiment. He asks other scientists to review his team's work and provide critical feedback.

Dr. Corum currently works at ISR as the chief scientist and provides technical guidance for the younger scientists and researchers.

As a child growing up in a rural New England farming community north of Boston, Dr. Corum was fascinated by radio waves and amateur radio.

He attended Lowell Technological Institute in Massachusetts where he received his bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and then attended Ohio State University, studying radio astronomy, for his master's and PhD.

After college, Dr. Corum joined the National Security Agency in 1965, working on classified projects as an electronic engineer, then took a faculty position teaching electronics, physics and mathematics at the Ohio Institute of Technology in 1970.

Dr. Corum and his wife, Linda, moved to Morgantown in 1974 and he has considered it his "base of operations" ever since. He was on the faculty of the Electrical Engineering Department at West Virginia University for 13 years.

The academician was invited to the Soviet Academy of Sciences to Moscow to discuss his discoveries in ball lightning. He has performed satellite consulting around the world.

Traveling down the last strip of the Orient Express he researched the life of Nikola Tesla. He has published over 100 papers, has several foreign and domestic patents, and a few books.

After serving as chief scientist for a Huntington Beach, California firm, Dr. Corum returned to work in West Virginia.
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:04 am

Linda Brown wrote:Mikado and Rose

And I believe that Agnew Bahnsons book about the saucer called the " Argonaut" was " The Stars Are Too High"

Maybe he realized too that you go further going sideways maybe?

Linda


I bought myself a copy of the book along with another for Mr. Trickfox. I just couldn't help but think about "Sliders", it may not be a remote control to open it but....I'll shut up..again.

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:29 am

Rose wrote:I see you and Mr. T are reading the same book tonight, Nate.

Linda, these folks have a chronology which says that TTB demonstrated his antigravity effect for the USAF in 1953. I know that was when Project Winterhaven started but i wasn't aware that he actually gave a demonstration.
http://informantnews.com/joesufos/nazi/8.html

Are they correct or are they confused?

rose


This is a very important question:

Why do you use the term "antigravity"?

Mikado
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby natecull » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:34 pm

Mikado14 wrote:This is a very important question:

Why do you use the term "antigravity"?


I know you didn't address this to me but if the question's actually important and not just Socratic, it's valid for anyone to answer it, right?

I would use the word "antigravity" specifically to describe a long-range, "polarised" force which included both attractive and repulsive aspects in a polarised manner, in a similar manner to electricity and magnetism, such that like "poles" repelled and unlike attracted. If such a polarised force does not in fact exist, and gravity is always and everywhere only attractive as the standard model suggests, then "antigravity" would be an incorrect term because gravity would not in fact have an *opposite*, in the same way that photons are considered to have no antiparticle.

It might in fact suggest that gravity is to mass as electromagnetic radiation is to charge, or even that gravity *is* a form of EM radiation. Is that what you're getting at?

Or are you suggesting that Brown's flying discs don't do any kind of gravity control at all and work purely by conventionally understandable physics like ion wind and/or the Lorentz force? Because I don't see how the maths on that can work. I've not crunched the numbers myself, but all the estimates of order of specific impulse I've seen for all known conventional EM propulsion effects are orders of magnitude too small.

The popular press of course uses the word "antigravity" in a wider sense to include concepts like "gravity shielding" or "gravity nullification" or "creation of a directed and changeable gravity field", both of which are also impossible in the conventional understanding of gravity as an omnidirectional, unshieldable, unpolarised force, and so are easy to lump together into the same category. I don't actually have a problem with using that terminology informally even if it's not strictly correct.
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby greggvizza » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm

natecull wrote:I would use the word "antigravity" specifically to describe a long-range, "polarised" force which included both attractive and repulsive aspects in a polarised manner, in a similar manner to electricity and magnetism, such that like "poles" repelled and unlike attracted. If such a polarised force does not in fact exist, and gravity is always and everywhere only attractive as the standard model suggests, then "antigravity" would be an incorrect term because gravity would not in fact have an *opposite*, in the same way that photons are considered to have no antiparticle.


What if gravity were a flow, like in a river or stream, where objects are pushed along with the flow of the water.
Then I suppose we would need to be like salmon and swim upstream.

GV
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:30 pm

Rose.

That particular site makes my eyes roll back in my head ( Morgans favorite saying, Paul will vouch for that!) so when you said

'Linda, these folks have a chronology which says that TTB demonstrated his antigravity effect for the USAF in 1953." you can understand that I am busy separating the chaff from the wheat grain.

Paul can better fill in the gaps. I am not aware of an OFFICIAL demonstration for the Air Force but if you look up the phrase " A man called Lehr" ( transcribed from the FBI phone transcripts) you will find mention of a situation where a couple of military folks were ESCORTED into the offices of the " Townsend Brown Foundation" in Los Angeles where " flying saucers" were demonstrated.

And of course that type of demonstration was also covered by the LA paper of the day too so I think your date of 1953 is correct.

Have you gotten any rest yet? Know that I appreciate all that you do. I will try to get back to you with the names involved, if you haven't already gotten into this material. You will recognize the story when you run across it because this gentleman was really alarmed.

This informal demonstration ( demonstrations) was not the same as the " Pearl Harbor" demonstration which happened earlier and in Hawaii , of course. Think basically Navy on that one. And I have a feeling from the types of material that has come in our direction that the Pearl Harbor demonstration had some very important activities attached to it... but linking them all together might just have to wait for another project!

As said, One of the military types was so astounded he immediately posted a call to another....expressing his extreme concern. I will get you the particular names and dates but unless I am wrong that experience resulted in what was then called the " Cady Report"

Paul, am I off base here? Linda
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:44 pm

Rose,

I am sure that you have already seen this comment posted so much earlier. But here tis again

"Linda also recalls the steady flow of interested and interesting individuals that streamed through the lab at GTI. Linda has a particularly strong recollection of Bill Lear — the “man named Lehr” who a general named Bertrandias had so breathlessly reported accompanying to a demonstration of actual flying saucers in Los Angeles in 1952 — spending the better part of a month hovering around the operation.

“Bill Lear spent almost everyday there at the shop with us in November, even going to lunch with us across the street. There were many meetings between he and Dad and some others.”

I never can remember that Generals name ( Bertrandias) but he sure got excited over what he had seen in ( I think that the proper date was maybe 1952 but I think that Paul would know for sure.) Linda
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:21 pm

natecull wrote:
Mikado14 wrote:This is a very important question:

Why do you use the term "antigravity"?


I know you didn't address this to me but if the question's actually important and not just Socratic, it's valid for anyone to answer it, right?

I would use the word "antigravity" specifically to describe a long-range, "polarised" force which included both attractive and repulsive aspects in a polarised manner, in a similar manner to electricity and magnetism, such that like "poles" repelled and unlike attracted. If such a polarised force does not in fact exist, and gravity is always and everywhere only attractive as the standard model suggests, then "antigravity" would be an incorrect term because gravity would not in fact have an *opposite*, in the same way that photons are considered to have no antiparticle.

It might in fact suggest that gravity is to mass as electromagnetic radiation is to charge, or even that gravity *is* a form of EM radiation. Is that what you're getting at?

Or are you suggesting that Brown's flying discs don't do any kind of gravity control at all and work purely by conventionally understandable physics like ion wind and/or the Lorentz force? Because I don't see how the maths on that can work. I've not crunched the numbers myself, but all the estimates of order of specific impulse I've seen for all known conventional EM propulsion effects are orders of magnitude too small.

The popular press of course uses the word "antigravity" in a wider sense to include concepts like "gravity shielding" or "gravity nullification" or "creation of a directed and changeable gravity field", both of which are also impossible in the conventional understanding of gravity as an omnidirectional, unshieldable, unpolarised force, and so are easy to lump together into the same category. I don't actually have a problem with using that terminology informally even if it's not strictly correct.


You attempted to give me a technical answer and that's ok and the question was directed at only rose. Since you ...let me quote you, "I don't actually have a problem with using that terminology informally even if it's not strictly correct" then you won't mind my not answering you since you don't have a problem and it is more than just "not strictly correct"...drop the "strictly".

However, for ease of communication on the forum, "anti-gravity" will work just fine and I will the word as merely barometer.

Mikado
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:50 pm

Damn disappearing replies!

Late night, not just rolling, but vegas slot machine eyes, Mikado. The quoted site actually said "electrogravity."

Linda, my browser has an edit/find feature that helps with sites like that!

Interesting meaningless coincidence: a search for "Cady Report" brings up a 1920's report on the peizoelectric phenomena of Rochelle salt.

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby natecull » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:20 am

Mikado14 wrote:You attempted to give me a technical answer and that's ok and the question was directed at only rose.


We're talking about a technology. What kind of possible answer can there be *other* than a technical one?

I really don't get you, Mikado. Why do you ask these vague coded questions and then get all in a huff when someone doesn't give you the specific answer you're looking for?

Edit: Oh, never mind, I just read Rose's reply.
Last edited by natecull on Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby htmagic » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:12 am

Rose wrote:Damn disappearing replies!

Late night, not just rolling, but vegas slot machine eyes, Mikado. The quoted site actually said "electrogravity."

Linda, my browser has an edit/find feature that helps with sites like that!

Interesting meaningless coincidence: a search for "Cady Report" brings up a 1920's report on the peizoelectric phenomena of Rochelle salt.

rose

Meaningless, Rose? Hmmm, I think not. Please dig up that report as it is the beginning of the use of crystals in radios. Quartz crystals allowed radios to "lock in" a signal because the quartz always vibrates at the same frequency if it is cut the same way and has the same dimensions. The quartz oscillator or resonator was first developed by Walter Guyton Cady in 1921. The Germans used crystals in their radios too and the shortage of quartz in WWII forced the Germans to look at synthetic quartz substitutes. Quartz crystals also have piezoelectric properties where they develop an electric potential upon the application of mechanical stress. The electronic BBQ lighter has a quartz piezoelectric crystal to produce that speak.

The quartz in a quartz watch is actually a tiny crystal that vibrates at the same frequency, locking in a time constant. In fact, without a quartz crystal used in a crystal oscillator, we would have no digital because a quartz crystal is used as a time base in microprocessor circuits. So even though it is a basic piece of electronics, it is still the heart of the machine that makes it beat at regular frequencies as every timebase needs one. And without it, you will wander aimlessly in time without a reference. Then later on, atomic clocks (using cesium) were developed for super accuracy.

I wonder if Dr. Brown worked on atomic clocks? If he had developed an FTM, he'd want a super accurate time base and an atomic clock could provide that. Lasers or radar could provide a super accurate method to determine distance. So with an accurate time base and an accurate method to measure distance, one could theoretically determine an exact position in time and space. (Now where the h*ll did that idea come from?) Watching too much of the SciFi Channel? :wink:

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:53 am

natecull wrote:
Mikado14 wrote:You attempted to give me a technical answer and that's ok and the question was directed at only rose.


We're talking about a technology. What kind of possible answer can there be *other* than a technical one?

I really don't get you, Mikado. Why do you ask these vague coded questions and then get all in a huff when someone doesn't give you the specific answer you're looking for?

Edit: Oh, never mind, I just read Rose's reply.


Actually Nate, when you say "gravity", one would be speaking of a phenomenon just as if you said "magnetism". Magnetism is not technology and neither is gravity. I asked a simple question of rose as to what she meant by the term "anti-gravity", very simple question. The question was neither vague or coded it was only simple. As to my getting in a huff, well, as you said in the beginning of your post, the question was not directed at you it was to rose. I still answered the question the best that I could but at least I don't jump to conclusion and use weasle words.

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:21 pm

Bill, the link was only to an article that referenced W.G. Cady, not to work by the man himself. Dialectric and piezo-electric work must have been cuttng edge stuff back then.

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v17/i4/p475_1

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Our Old Friend Elsey. (I thought it was Eisey?

Postby Rose » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:31 pm

Look who I met up with agai in this morning's wanderings. I wonder what he could tell us about the Rainbow Fountains Photo?

After sending Elsey, with his permission, a copy of the3 primary MJ-12 documents. I had specifically asked him, as I have reported, if he saw any reason to believe that the Eisenhower Briefing Document or Truman Forrestal or Cutler Twining memos were fraudulent. He said No. I asked if he had any reason, knowing all the people, to believe that, if a saucer had crashed, Truman would not have picked any of the 12 to be a member of an over-group. No. They were all people he trusted. I asked if the TF memo could have been typed elsewhere than at Truman’s office. He said more than 80% of what a President signs is prepared elsewhere. I noted that the numerical portion of the date is offset from the month and that there is a period after the date and that Bush’s office always put a period after the date. Could it have been typed in Bush’s office (or Forrestal’s?). He said certainly. Truman certainly trusted them. He also noted that often documents had to be put in a typewriter twice to put the right date on them as to when directives etc went into effect. I have examples from the National Security Council where the date and text are typed in 2 different fonts.

In case people are wondering why I place much reliance on Elsey,. here is some background: He was a Commander in the U.S. Naval Reserve and the duty officer at the White House map room from 1941 until 1946, that is the entire 2nd World War. He was assistant to the Special Counsel to the President (Clark Clifford) 1947-1949; Administrative Assistant to the President 1949-1951 and assistant to the Director, Mutual Security Agency 1951-1953.

He also filled me in on the close connection between James Lay, Executive Secretary to Eisenhower’s National Security Council, and Robert Cutler, Ike’s National Security advisor. This helped very much in evaluation of the Cutler Twining memo. The evidence strongly indicates this is also a genuine document despite the attacks of noisy negativists, armchair theorists. This is not only because Phil Klass paid me $1000. for proving him wrong about the type face on the memo.


http://frankwarren.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... mj-12.html
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