PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Here is where we focus on separating the facts from the fiction, identifying what we KNOW from what what we DON'T KNOW about the life and work of Townsend Brown

Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:11 pm

Nate,

The Florida connection that I picked up on was the knowledge that there was what others have considerered a " Consortium" operating out of Florida for many years. Based there and in Nassau. Thats what I was picking up on. There were a couple of areas in our various moves that seemed to call us back , over and over. One was the Washington DC area. ( Leesburg for us, mainly... but Alexandria and Georgetown for Daddy) The other center seemed to be Florida ... Coral Gables area several times, Nassau etc. I met one lawyer that was very active in the 1966 time frame and I am just waiting to see if his name crosses over somehow. Thats why I made the comment. Just waiting for the other shoe to drop from my end of things.

Actually Pauls book and the way it is developing might just serve as the landing lights for ships circling the field right about now. I suspect that there are MANY out there that know far more than they have ever said. Maybe many of them were treated much the same way I was treated. Maybe they took things for what they seemed to be and of course were bitterly disappointed when the project they had sunk so much of their time and energy into didn't go anywhere.... or didn't seem to go anywhere.

I suspect that the gentlemen that you have mentioned just might be in that situation, possibly.... or POSSIBLY, like me, they are beginning also to put two and two together.

Then there I am sure are a whole bunch of others. "Leftovers" Mr. Twigsnapper snorts ... who knew fairly well what was going on but who are still bound by the strange secrecy thing that basically says " I can't mention anything until it specifically comes out into the publics view"

If thats the case and we can get specific enough in our speculations then you see that we are serving the purpose by switching on those landing lights. I am sure that some of those circling would be very happy to see that happen but they can't and won't come in before those lights go on.

And those nine years are dark, very dark.

Question here for all of you and for Paul as he considers what to do with this information.

What does the year 1960, (the summer expecially, mean to everybody) Why would A.L. Kitselmen, William Lear, Robert Sarbacher and Townsend Brown be meeting consistantly in the same area around Alexandria Virginia? Beau mentions that summer in his " Hello Stupid" but he certainly doesn't say much more.

I know so far that it had something to do with missiles .... communications ... because look at the background of these gentlemen.

I just see it as a kid would. I harbor the loving memory of Dad showing me a beatuiful substantial house during that summer. It was located in a little town in the country called Chantilly and I remember him saying to both Mom and me that his lab would be right down the street and that we could stay there in that area until I graduated ... and that she wouldn't have to worry about moving anymore ... and that we would own that piece of property ...... and two months later ......He was in Meadville Pa ..... and that dream had blown apart.

Some of you already perhaps see the connections here. I mention them because even though they don't answer any real questions they are important in their own right and need to be out there.

Paul , you know the story better than any one. It might seem like just more of the same but it still is a vital part of what was going on. Am I wrong? Linda
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:23 pm

1960 Kennedy and Nixon were campaigning.

The space program was focused on putting John Glenn into orbit. From mission design to mission support, all of that would have brought new challenges.

But wasn't it about this time that Bill Lear wrote his enthusiastic article the instant travel method" that was to be arriving within a decade? Speculation time: We have been given the consideration that when TTB was doing subtests at the Philadelphia navy yard, some of those tests may have been for performance effects of something unkown, and over and above whatever else may have geen going on.

i wonder if a similar operation, intended to accompany/or piggyback on Glenn's mission was being designed and run by those men?

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mark Culpepper » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:32 pm

Piggyback Rose is the operative word here.

I have been watching this forum for a long time now and the one thing that I have picked up on right away is ....... intelligence and communications.... thats what all of these men were all about. Intelligence and communications in 1960 means to me .... spy satellites. And thats where I would focus your energies if I were you.

I appreciate the Philadelphia Navy Yard stories but we are looking for a reason to be really BLACK during 1960 and I swear to you that the beginning of something that turned into the National Reconnaissance Office ..... ( Chantilly Virginia, by the way) would have been the most secret thing going. Chantilly. What are the chances of that being coincidental. NOT. Worth dragging your family from pillar to post? Hopefully worth all of the tears that I can feel in Lindas words. Am I off base here? I don't think so. MarkC
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby htmagic » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:52 pm

Linda Brown wrote:What does the year 1960, (the summer expecially, mean to everybody) Why would A.L. Kitselmen, William Lear, Robert Sarbacher and Townsend Brown be meeting consistantly in the same area around Alexandria Virginia? Beau mentions that summer in his " Hello Stupid" but he certainly doesn't say much more.

I know so far that it had something to do with missiles .... communications ... because look at the background of these gentlemen.

<SNIP>
Some of you already perhaps see the connections here. I mention them because even though they don't answer any real questions they are important in their own right and need to be out there.

Paul , you know the story better than any one. It might seem like just more of the same but it still is a vital part of what was going on. Am I wrong? Linda

Linda,

During this time, the Nike missile program was in place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_missile#Nike_Ajax wrote:The missile was first deployed at Fort Meade, Maryland in December, 1953. A further 240 launch sites were built up to 1962. They replaced 896 radar-guided anti-aircraft guns, operated by the National Guard or Army to protect certain key sites. This left a handful of 75 mm Skysweeper emplacements as the only anti-aircraft artillery remaining in use by the US. By 1957 the Regular Army AAA units had been replaced by missile battalions. In 1958 the Army National Guard began to replace their guns and adopt the Ajax system.
<SNIP>
The Nike Hercules was deployed starting in June 1958. First deployed to Chicago, 393 Hercules ground systems were manufactured. By 1960 ARADCOM had 88 Hercules batteries and 174 Ajax batteries, defending 23 zones across 30 states. Peak deployment was in 1963 with 134 Hercules batteries not including the US Army Hercules batteries deployed in Germany, Greece, Greenland, Italy, Korea, Okinawa, Taiwan, and Turkey.

I noticed the date of the start of the Nike Hercules program was 1958. Just when things were going black for Dr. Brown for several years. Now it may not be the program that Dr. Brown worked on but the dates fit and so does the location with Ft. Meade, MD and D.C. nearby.

Remember, this was during the Cold War. Sputnik was launched by the Russians in 1957. The US was scrambling in their rocket program. Dr. Brown may have been consulted for the missile program or the radars that guide (and detect) the missiles. This would also be reason for him to visit Florida, although it would be Cape Canaveral at that time. Also he could be visiting the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, AL. They were launching and testing missiles there before Cape Canaveral.

Picking up bread crumbs...

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:23 pm

We're bouncing back and forth today, Mark, and Bill. I just posted a bit about the first supersecret spy satellite mission down in the Charles thread.

Tracking people from the days of the OSS through their later very high level positions helps me to understand quite a bit about the organizational evolution of the NRO. In WWII communications was at the service of intelligence...by 1960 the situation is starting to flip.

Do you suppose the move to the Bahamas had anything to do with alining a communications link with a satellite transmitting pictures?

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:13 pm

Or for communicating with GRAB, the nation's first sigint signals intelligence sat system, launched in 1960?

Or for some NRO mission that remains classified still?

http://www.nro.gov/NRO_Fact_Sheet.pdf

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mark Culpepper » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:39 am

Rose,

After 9/11 I kept hearing this rumor that just before that attack the NRO had pulled a drill which had something to do with a plane crashing into their building. I can't give you my source here (sorry) but the inference was that information the NRO had developed had also been supplied to the CIA and the FBI.... warning of an looming attack by air but no one would act on those warnings... so ... ( as the rumor goes) the people in charge of the NRO pulled their own drill that day.

I hadn't actually heard or seen any reference to that rumor and thought that it might have been sort of the kind of inside intelligence family urban myth. But now, I found this....

"The admission that this idea was fostered under the Director of the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), is very significant, because as the Associated Press reported in 2002, “In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident,” and that “Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure,” and it further stated, “Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. No actual plane was to be involved -- to simulate the damage from the crash, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.” The same article explained that, “The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA,” and further, “After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel,”3 [Emphasis added].

As Webster Tarpley mentioned in his book, 9/11: Synthetic Terror, “The NRO [National Reconnaissance Office] was a super-secret agency responsible for spy satellites and other eavesdropping from space. It was created in 1960, and its existence was not acknowledged for some 32 years. The NRO draws its personnel from the military and Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] and has a budget equal to the combined budgets of both the CIA and the National Security Agency. On 11 September 2001, the NRO director was Keith R. Hall, who had headed the agency since 1996. In his capacity as DNRO [Director of NRO], Hall was responsible for the acquisition and operation of all United States space-based reconnaissance and intelligence systems. At the same time Hall also served as Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Space. As Nico Haupt has pointed out, Booz Allen Hamilton [a global strategy and technology consulting firm] is a prominent subcontractor for the NRO. The obvious effect of evacuating the NRO was at least temporarily to blind institutional US intelligence to events which could have been monitored from outer space. NRO could have provided a real-time view of the air space over North America; as a result of the evacuation, this may not have been available. The advantages for the perpetrators are obvious.”4 Keith Hall, the head of the agency, who would have been a pivotal figure involved with the plane-into-building drill, which took place on 9/11, and as the Associated Press article had mentioned, after the actual “real world” 9/11 (plane-into-building) attacks were underway, the NRO was evacuated, except for ‘some essential personnel’. Without a doubt, one such personnel would have been Keith Hall.

Now...THERES THE PERSON I would like to ask about Townsend Brown but I doubt that an organization which has kept itself secret for 32 years is going to want to talk to us, huh? So anybody know anything more about Kit Hall? MarkC
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mark Culpepper » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:49 am

correction: I meant Keith Hall of course and here is the link
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... cleId=6644

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:38 pm

Biting my tongue on the "coincidental" 911 connection there, Mark.

Some of the early directors are the ones i'd like to meet.
http://www.nro.gov/directorlist.html

Did you know that the director is also always an undersecretary for the USAF? (And, btw, Scott Large, the current NRO guy director has red hair, by the way, or at least what's left of it appears to be red. It gave me quite a start when I saw his picture!)

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"Piggyback"

Postby Paul S. » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:51 pm

... is exactly the word.

Mark Culpepper wrote:Piggyback Rose is the operative word here.


And Rose replies:

rose wrote:Or for communicating with GRAB, the nation's first sigint signals intelligence sat system, launched in 1960?


"Chapter 71: Missing Daddy" quotes some material from James Bamford's book about the NSA, "Body of Secrets," which describes some of the seminal work that went into surveillance satellites. The suggestion to look at pages 364-365 came directly from Morgan.

Re-reading that chapter now, I'm seeing that it possibly goes off in the wrong direction, or is at least incomplete. I'll type in some of page 365 here.

We pick up 6 weeks after Francis Gary Powers' U2 spy plane is shot down over Russia in the spring of 1960. Eisenhower has approved a new plan. Bamford describes a Thor rocket launch:

James Bamford - Body of Secrets wrote:Packed tightly in its fiberglass shroud was the world's first operative spy satellite.

The worLd was told that the package aboard the Thor contained two scientific satellites, one to measure solar radiation, known as as Solar-Rad, and the other to aid in navigation. "Piggy-back Satellites HaIled as Big Space Gain for U.S. Satellite," said the headline in the Washington Post on the morning of June 23. But hidden within the Solar Rad satellite was NRL's Elint Bird, codenamed GRAB, for "Galactic Radiation and Background." At a dwarfish six watts and forty two pounds, GRAB looked a bit like a silver soccer ball.

As GRAB orbited about 500 miles over Russia, it would collect the beeping pulses from the hundreds of radar systems throughout the forbidden land. The signals would then be retransmitted instantly on narrow VHF frequencies to a small collection of huts at ground stations in Turkey, Iran, and elsewhere, where they would be recorded on reels of magnetic tape. Flown to Washington on courier flights, the tapes would go to NRL scientists, who would convert the data into digital format and pass them to NSA for analysis.


The thing that strikes me as I read this again now is that GRAB was the "NRL's Elint Bird." This thing belonged to the NRL, and they controlled all the data before it went to the NSA for analysis. And who do we know who worked for the NRL in the 1930s, for whom the NRL could find NO RECORD of his engagement there. Hmmmm???

rose wrote: Or for some NRO mission that remains classified still?


Sounds about right to me.

But remember, here we're only talking about stuff that is merely "classified." We haven't even gotten to the stuff that is really secret.

Now I'm trying to remember who planted the bug in my ear a while back that "if there's any government agency that would be responsible for intercepting or monitoring extra-terrestrial communications... it'd be the NRO."

Which was formed during "The Missing Years," during which, as Linda has pointed out, the Brown's were circling a domicile in Chantilly, VA.

Do we need a new thread on "The Missing Years"? If we do, it will have to be in the moderated section.

--PS
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The Missing Years - New Thread

Postby Paul S. » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 pm

I waited all day for somebody to respond here, but it's been quiet, so I sent ahead anyway.

The discussion of the NRO and "The Missing Years" has now been initiated here:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=577

If you have anything to contribute to this very important thread, please post your comments and observations there.

Thanks,

--PS
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Rose » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:20 am

I just encountered this from Andrew on my slog through the Random Notes thread

I'll give this horse another slap on the rear - I should have been more specific.

I enjoyed this short clip on badges of black ops at http://www.newsweek.com/id/118841?GT1=43001, and thought all of you might as well.

They are from the book, "I Could Tell You but Then You Would Have to Be Destroyed by Me: Emblems from the Pentagon's Black World."

The patch number 10 is from the NRO and says on it, "Non estad astra mollis e terris via," or "The trip from the Earth to the stars is not an easy one."


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=308&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=495
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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Mikado14 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:23 am

Rose wrote:The patch number 10 is from the NRO and says on it, "Non estad astra mollis e terris via," or "The trip from the Earth to the stars is not an easy one."


[/quote]

Think about it rose. I mean, really think about that statement. I would rather slipstream into a dimensional neighbor.

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:32 am

Mikado and Rose

And I believe that Agnew Bahnsons book about the saucer called the " Argonaut" was " The Stars Are Too High"

Maybe he realized too that you go further going sideways maybe?

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Re: PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES

Postby natecull » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:48 am

Linda Brown wrote:Mikado and Rose

And I believe that Agnew Bahnsons book about the saucer called the " Argonaut" was " The Stars Are Too High"

Maybe he realized too that you go further going sideways maybe?

Linda


Or use a tesseract.

You've all read Madeleine L'Engle's 'A Wrinkle in Time', right? :)

http://www.math.brown.edu/~banchoff/Yal ... /math.html
It's a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff.
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