Chapter 70: Look Ma, No Hands -- Or Head

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

A "black triangle" intelligence " station" that can ..... I think the word I have heard used is " dwell" over certain targets or points of interest? Unseen by radar and probably optically invisible too? That would sure qualify as " lurking". And if you are beginning to think that such a thing might be possible then I suppose that we all need to pay more attention to these " Black Triangle reports" and why all of a sudden, people in Washington are deciding to talk about all of this again. Gee, its beginning to look like 1956 and NICAP all over again. Maybe this time ..... something might be brought out from the shadows? Elizabeth

[flowperson]

Hi Paul...I was mostly going to "lurk" myself today...but you had to ask. What's the difference between using the words "driven" or "managed" when referring to world and societal events ?

My take is that it all has to do with the state of developments in science and technology as it always has. But it also has to do with the institutions that societies have placed "in charge"of these processes. This all used to be managed on a household, community, state, or national basis. Now we are being required to do it on a globally interconnected basis.

Beginning in the 19th century with the supreme court decision which you cited for me awhile back concerning the legal treatment and consideration of corporations as being the same as individual human beings, we have been in an increasingly global mode of concentration of "management" styles in the development of science and technology. The ultimate goals of such "managements" has been the pursuit of profits over this time frame. Of course that's not all bad. It has given most of us in developed nations a lifestyle unheard of in the rest of known history.

But this also automatically places human welfare considerations in a secondary role over the long term. We are only now beginning to see what the true costs of that method and system of development management may cost us all in the future. It is encouraging to see some leaders begin to embrace the major capitalization and development of sustainable science and technological development for the betterment of a wider spectrum of the world's population.

Which brings me to the use of the word "driven". What we have now is a globally constructed economical system based upon science and technology development. The past mistakes made by governments and corporations in "managing" the system are beginning to catch up with us all. There is a distinct global separation between the "haves and have nots" occurring right now, and the gaps are widening.

Scientific principles discovered beginning in the 1960's concerning the attributes and behavior of chaotic and complex systems has helped some in positions of authority to recognize that we are all really a part of nature and that this fact cannot be changed, although some still deny this reality to their detriment.

Top down take it or leave it management style in the pursuit of profits is antithetical to the long-term favorable behavior patterns of complex systems. This style always causes more frequent chaotic episodes over the long term.

Like vehicles on roadways complex systems require and need tweaking, steering, nudging, acceleration, braking applied to them from those who find themselves "driving" them into the future. My opinion is that TTB and the Caroline Groups, through the use of innovative and trascendent technologies forsaw what we are experiencing these days, and began a shift towards a "driving" mentality in the 30's during the Roosevelt Administration.

Of course speaking of such things always tempts those who would scream and point fingers at the Illuminati, the Bilderbergs, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the guys that meet at the Bohemian Grove, etc. That is all smoke and mirrors. My opinion is that there is a global wisdom beginning to drive things these days and it ain't the traditional management style people and organizations complex. The short-term profit oriented viewpoint is gradually shifting to a long-term general beneficience viewpoint I believe.

Quite some time ago, in the 50's I believe. an economist from the University of Chicago named Joseph Schumpeter worked out a lot of this and won the Nobel Prize for his innovative thinking. He called capitalism "creative destruction". Yup.

Now I plan to go back into lurking mode. Write on ! Go Forth !

flow....

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Remember that we are keeping a place for you here.

For those of you who may be new to this discussion, or for those of us who have already lost track of where we have already been! It might be time now to go to this thread in the General Discussion Group ....

viewtopic.php?t=372 BLACK TRIANGLES

And maybe then we can continue the discussion of " Black Triangle " Possibilities in that thread while leaving this one open for other topics? Whatever you guys want to do. I am just trying to put like things together, as much as possible and there are loads of comments on this subject and many more to come I think. Elizabeth

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Everybody. I apparently used the wrong word when I talked about these large black triangles being able to " dwell" .... thats not the word I guess that the experts use . Their word is } "Loiter time" as in this from Richard Dolan which I guess we found earlier

INFINITE LOITER TIME? (AS HIGH AS 125,000 FEET?) AND SPEED AS HIGH ???? AS Mach 9.
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And Victoria had this response which I thought excellent considerations on the subjects viewtopic.php?p=3332#3332 worth the copy, please be patient. Victoria, remember saying this? November 5TH last year!!!!! Now all of the sudden it make a whole lot more sense to me. What about others out there? Comments on what she proposes here?

"While we are all considering putting our "theories" up front ... Here I go.

Richard Dolan in the ending remarks of his site makes this comment. " What we can say for now is that there is no explanation yet offered to the public that brings these triangles down to earth. There is a large body of evidence that continues to elude conventional explanation. The triangles do not at all appear to be "ours".

Now I have learned to see a loaded statement, even if the writer does not recognize it as he is writing it.

1.) If the group that Paul has dubbed "the Caroline Group" is as powerful and far reaching as I think it is ....... perhaps if the "triangles" are not "ours" (meaning our militarys) ........ that doesn't mean particularly that you have to go immediately searching alien backyards.

Paul keeps saying that Morgan has cautioned him about either/ or situations with the truth being possibly something in between . So I am just saying MAYBE that these things might have been developed here on earth......in secrecy by this group ..... they seem to be able to operate within and without the military superstructure of the United States. So does anyone else see that this might be a possibility? As far fetched as that seems? We have just started to look at that group through Townsend Browns eyes. Its going to be an interesting viewpoint, I think. Victoria
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And I agree with you Victoria. Thanks to Pauls work. Finally getting a chance to actually see through his eyes. Elizabeth

[ladygrady]

First of all. An outstanding chapter. Its got heart, mystery, intrigue, scientific facts, and classified information until 2057. Thats just about everything!

I am a little troubled by that new source saying that there are notebooks from Townsend Browns work in the thirties. If so, why isn't the Caroline Group in charge of them. This person doesn't seem like he is a member? And if you were writing this biography and not just talking about it I see no reason that he shouldn't make every effort to make those notebooks available to you. I suspect other agendas and I think that you do too from the tone of your postscript.

Regarding other notebooks. Dr. Brown starts his lab notebooks with the comment that finally his thoughts will be properly noted ..... then he goes to France and runs tests that you KNOW would require careful notes. I suggest that he started a second set of notebooks then. Covering things that he could not talk about in the open. Oh, I don't think that he would have mentioned the various " smoking bolt " operations but the scientific thoughts I really think he would have a hard time surpressing. And he probably kept that notebook right alongside the other one. Hiding in plain sight, if they were identical no one would think about them. Just his nature I think to take careful notes, once he started. grady

[Radomir]

We haven't yet discussed Morgan's intriguing statement about "keep the humans out of it..."

Now that we've discussed Crabb a bit, I find that this phrase from Morgan is the one thing that keeps sticking out for me from this chapter. It's so ambiguous, so seemingly a "mistake" yet I KNOW Morgan would never send a message he hadn't thoroughly proofread and that wasn't thoroughly intentional in its phrasing. So what the heck could this mean?

Factions of non-human Caroline members, polarized after the splintering? Or does it mean "regular people=humans" and that's how folks in the ultra-black spy world refer to us non-players? They can snipe at each other and count coup, but keep the civilians/humans out of it...that would be the more pedestrian interpretation of his meaning.

And then there is the phrase he mentioned about the core of the Caroline group: "If who the core of that group is hasn't become apparent to you yet..." Sure, right...Hasn't become apparent to me yet, anyone else?

R.

[Griffin]

Radomir-

Just as Townsend Brown and other members of the Caroline Group interacted with other groups or "factions" like the Navy and other institutions -- most times closely aligned and apparently sometimes not -- we may conjecture that the ETs have factions too, sometimes allied and sometimes not. There is testimony from ET contacts confirming this, if we choose to credit them.

Griffin

[Paul S.]

Of course speaking of such things always tempts those who would scream and point fingers at the Illuminati, the Bilderbergs, the Tri-Lateral Commission, the guys that meet at the Bohemian Grove, etc. That is all smoke and mirrors. My opinion is that there is a global wisdom beginning to drive things these days and it ain't the traditional management style people and organizations complex. The short-term profit oriented viewpoint is gradually shifting to a long-term general beneficience viewpoint I believe.

And that, boys and girls, is possibly one of the most trenchant paragraphs yet posted on these forums.

'Nuf said.

--PS

[flowperson]

Hi Radomir.

Keep in mind that we are now dealing with, since the 50's at least, people in possession of "sets" that can:
1.cause instantaneous communication to occur from one place to another anywhere in the universe. My impression is that current and recent users of the technology have limited its use to communications backwards and forwards within the timelines of Earth only. Just my impression of the BIG PICTURE so far.
2."sets" also are comprised of smallish boxes which can teleport small items across time/space instantaneously.

I believe Morgan was referring to "human" in the common vernacular, ie. beings conceived thru sexual intercourse between a fertile man and fertile woman, and thence a birth nine months later after being carried and nourished by the woman.

In view of some of the technological miracles being performed by infertility clinics these days, practically any fertilized embryo may now be implanted in a suitable surrogate mother and be carried to term with suitable birthing results. All that is really needed is sufficient funds to pay for it all.

One would have to assume that any viable cloned embryo, even those perhaps teleported, would follow the same procedure to be brought into existence as an inhabitant of Earth.

Put that together with Morgan's unambiguous statement regarding "keeping
humans out of it" and I believe that the logical outcome is for "official" institutions to issue statements such as this:

http://www.livescience.com/health/07111 ... lones.html

My personal opinion is that if it isn't already happening, or was certainly about to happen, this sort of warning from a secular institution would be unnecessary. Conservative religious institutions have been trumpeting it for some time now. My personal opinion also is that "hybrids" of some sort have been among us for at least ninety years or so. That would certainly explain the special capabilities that some people seem to possess.

I'm always struck by the line in Spielberg's masterpiece, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, where one scientist/engineer says to another when people from the past begin stepping off of the musical UFO at Devil's Tower..."Einstein was right". "Yeah, he was probably one of them."

flow....

[Paul S.]

And he probably kept that notebook right alongside the other one. Hiding in plain sight, if they were identical no one would think about them. Just his nature I think to take careful notes, once he started.

Careful, there, grady.... or yer gonna give away Chapter 72!

--PS

[Mikado14]

Keep in mind that we are now dealing with, since the 50's at least, people in possession of "sets" that can:
1.cause instantaneous communication to occur from one place to another anywhere in the universe. My impression is that current and recent users of the technology have limited its use to communications backwards and forwards within the timelines of Earth only. Just my impression of the BIG PICTURE so far.

Ahh, and that is the thrust of it all. What if it could do what you propose but also the current timeline? I see the door opening for some paradoxes but then there are rules no matter how you jump around.

2."sets" also are comprised of smallish boxes which can teleport small items across time/space instantaneously.

And that was in the 50's. Think it just may have been expanded upon?

Just more fodder,

Mikado

[Langley]

It's very gratifying to see that everybody seems to like this chapter. I guess it's a testament to something that it turned out as smoothly as it did, and that most of the grief and sweat that went into its construction wound up on the cutting room floor, so to speak...

And you have also established the conclusiveness of the Caroline Group's transcendance of national interests. The bit about there being "set" groups both in the west, and behind the iron curtain is fascinating. It reveals to us that the stakes in the cold war were likely larger than we perceived and were likely driven by things lurking in the background and forever out of sight, except to people such as Townsend Brown.

......

constructed.... and is in operation somewhere on this planet now, today??

The material here certainly implies that there are communications in use that the public has no idea of. What about transport vessels as well? Giant black triangles, maybe?

I don't know if I can ever answer that question, but when we talk about things "lurking in the background," well.... that's the big one for me.

--PS

What was the name of the wealthy guy who organised the gold shipment from US for Lenin, the sealed train that took Lenin and the gold to Russia to start the Russian revolution? How come US finance continued to be a force in Soviet society? Why was Chase Manhattan Bank resident in centre of Moscow? How come Ford built a truck factory in USSR when supply bottleneck developed between USSR and North Vietnam? Tragedy and Hope? An over arching group of internationalists inducing events foreseen in order to manage outcomes?
Dangerous ground as Conspiracy theorists have taken ownership of that lot.

or ET guidance?

France left NATO in 1967.
France was the fourth nation to join the nuclear club when it successfully detonated a large nuclear device in Algeria in 1960

France developed nuclear weapons to serve as a nuclear deterrent independent of the United States and Great Britain. This independent deterrent, known as the Force de Frappe, was seen as a means for France to maintain a degree of freedom it required to defend its own interest. Traditionally, these nuclear weapons served solely for the defense of France but later served for the defense of Western Europe, primarily against Soviet aggression during the Cold War. Initially, when President Charles de Gaulle established this independent nuclear capability, it was never integrated with NATO policies and plans. France also never sought to engage in nuclear arms competitions between the Soviet Union and the United States. http://www.atomicforum.org/france/france.html

Seems France might have been a more secure place to work in, being a lone wolf. It possessed the technological facilitaties Brown seems to have needed. Somehow, nuclear research and Brown's work have been threaded in ways I (however accurately or not) can see - even checking the use of Cesium - mentioned early in chapter was a snap to confirm for example.
Watched "Tinity and Beyond" again last night and Teller stated he wasnt originally interested in bombs but among other things the "vibrations of atoms". Im not very subtle re the intellilgence goings on but theres a race going on here. And it seems that no government was trust worthy as they were all divided into hawks and doves.

Which brings back the wolf in sheep's clothing thing and I'll leave it there.

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

That really has to be one of the most mysterious statements made in this book. But if he is referring to the " core" of the Caroline Group then he has already said that if we don't understand yet we will have to wait until our own perceptions change before we see and understand.

I have learned a couple of things about Morgan during Pauls exchange with the man. I believe that he has the kind of mind that thinks things through, sometimes years in advance. Yet, he is able to respond to immediate conditions and problems in a wildly unexpected and intuitive manner. Maybe thats what kept him alive in the position he had " Still Above ground I see .... " is the greeting that Sir William reserved especially for him. I imagine sometimes that wasn't really all that easy

So knowing what he meant by that is difficult. Did he throw that out there knowing full well that it would cause these discussions. Paul had that exchange with him .... what? in 2004? So he must have been willing to wait for that to hit print and maybe wait even longer for us to understand what he was talking about.

Maybe he was indeed being protective of " Humans" .... "Keep the Humans ... the non -spook civilians, guys with families and mortgages out of it .... leave it to the centurions? to duke it out where they might live or die and no one would know or be affected except by the security of the outcome?

and what you said here Radomir really fits the mark" "Or does it mean "regular people=humans" and that's how folks in the ultra-black spy world refer to us non-players? They can snipe at each other and count coup, but keep the civilians/humans out of it...that would be the more pedestrian interpretation of his meaning."

Spooks sniping at each other, even Caroline spooks sniping at each other. I imagine if you move to Russia because you have made the committment to live there for the rest of your life and do your best for that country, you would possibly begin to look upon your American counterparts differently. Splintered, thats what he said. Taking coups ... stealing ponies ... deadly stuff but leaving the " Humans " American and Russian? out of it? Keep World War Three .... out of it?????


I thought too that the Apaches and other Indian nations considered themselves " HumanBeings" and the white men and outsiders, NOT. So maybe there was another meaning which I don't get yet .

Maybe its all of those. Not one or the other. Elizabeth

[Mark Culpepper]

Paul,

You have sort of told us how Morgan introduced himself into your life .. and I found that VERY interesting. But I have this question for you. Just how did Mr. ORiley ( Mr. Twigsnapper) introduce himself? You apparently have been corresponding with him for years. What has that been like ( besides frustrating) I thought I would head you off at the pass on that one because I have sensed that Mr. Twigsnapper only gives you tidbits at a time and then he seems to wait to see what you are going to do with it. Maybe you have done well because look at the amount of information he has sent in your direction.

So can you share with us how your ( I take it) friendship started and has continued. Has anyone ever asked you if you have met the man face to face? I think maybe somebody did. ( Was it me?) but I don't remember your answer.

And of course Mr. Twigsnapper I would love to hear your side of it too! I can never thank you enough for all of the information that you caused to have shoved under my door! Just wondered how it was with Paul. MarkC

[flowperson]

I thought too that the Apaches and other Indian nations considered themselves " HumanBeings" and the white men and outsiders, NOT. So maybe there was another meaning which I don't get yet .

Maybe its all of those. Not one or the other. Elizabeth

Hi... people of indigenous origins world wide thought of them selves as the "people" or the "human beings". This is another one of those cross-cultural global and shared things like pyramids, sacred birds, the above/the below, etc.

The "white men" were thought of as intruders and something foreign to "mother Earth" wherever they impinged upon the original tribal milieu of the Earth's people. This wasn't a thing just peculiar to the Apaches, and other N. American native peoples, although they may have been a bit more vehement and fierce about it all than some others.

My two cents.

flow....