Two units, sending/receiving

[Victoria Steele]

You got me started on this by mentioning cranberry bogs Elizabeth! How did you know that would mean something to me? I just came back from a visit there , beautiful! Never seen anything quite like it. Will never pick up a can of Oceanspray without thinking of those corrals.

Anyway. grinder, you mentioned Mr. Twigsnappers messages. I miss him too. So I figured that he probably HAS told us alot that we just haven't GOTTEN yet. So I thought I would just go after that bunch of information by starting a new post called "What Mr. Twigsnapper said" Then we can all compare notes. Is that OK Paul? Well, if it isn't you know where to find me.

Oh, by the way, new job is going great. Still trying for Vegas but not sure I can make it. You know, man in my life now, complicates things. Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Victoria,

Bring your man along. We promise to be nice

Andrew

[Mikado14]

Sending/receiving - it was said here, one to send and one to receive.

What comes to mind is a radio station (sending) and the radio that I listen to it's broadcast (receiving).

Question - Does that really consitute "communication" in the colloquial sense?

Look at the dates you are talking, 1933 to 1938? too soon

I believe that somewhere you will find a reference to a transmitter being built but it was not the 30's

Mikado

[Victoria Steele]

Interesting response Mikado. "Too soon" you say .... which tells me that you are on a trail yourself and that information doesn't quite match up. I'll be interested to see where it is that you think that your trail is taking you.

Meanwhile, I guess we all have different trails to follow. One of the reasons I sort of "signed on" to this forum was my disgruntled attitude with Mr. William Moore. I am not even sure why I developed that actually but it was a pretty strong emotion. I had read his "Philadephia Experiment" and got upset the way he drew so many unwarrented conclusions. (of course wild speculation always has a market I suppose! Then I caught on to this forum and actually at first I thought that Paul would be as wild-eyed but he has turned out to be very careful and I respect that. And now that I have gotten a better view of what the story is I actually don't blame Moore all that much for jumping off the way he did. Maybe he sensed that there was a grand story there but he just didn't have the skill to bring it forward. Or maybe that wasn't his role in all of this? A thought for later discussions.

Anyway, I have been chewing on his pant leg (as I said I was going to) Currently rereading his " The Wizard of Electro-Gravity". Now this was published in a Saga article in May of 1978. I am ASSUMING that he got some of his information directly from Dr. Brown because he did tell Paul that he had spoken to Josephine and Townsend (but not other members of the family. I am not even sure that he knew that there WERE other members of the family ... an attitude that I will address later)

But there is something that he says here which is extremely interesting to me NOW since we all know about the voyage on the Nashville and what was going on in 1938. Where, exactly, did Moore get this tidbit?

http://www.geeman-headquarters.com/page90.html

"In 1939, Brown, now a lieutenant in the naval reserve went to Maryland as a material engineer for the Glenn L. Martin Company of Baltimore (later Martin Aerospace), but was there only a matter of months when he was called upon by the Navy to become officer in charge of magnetic and accoustic minesweeping research and development under the Bureau of Ships. He served faithfully, presing over the expenditure of nearly $50 million for research (there were some fifteen Ph.D.'s responsible to Brown at one point), and even consulting with Einstein himself on occasion (the common bond, remember, was Dr. Biefeld), until after Pearl Harbor when he was transferred, with the rank of lieutenant commander, to Norfolk to continue his research while heading up the Navy's Atlantic Fleet Radar School there."

Now, this was written in 1978. Wasn't Dr. Brown on Catalina then? I can't keep track of him but do you notice something? FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS MENTIONED. Was that the same 50 million that was transported from England on the Nashville, under Dr. Browns watchful eyes? How many blocks of cash like that can be allocated? FIFTEEN SCIENTISTS WORKING RESPONSIBLE TO BROWN. .... CONSULTING WITH EINSTEIN????

IS IT POSSIBLE that Moore is reporting part of what was actually happening at the U of Pa .... maybe, without even knowing it?

My canberry thrashing machine just made a sharp turn. Back soon. Victoria

[grinder]

Just this question. If there is a SENDING station in Bermuda ...... and a receiveing station at the University of Pa ..... where is the military in all this. They are not!

That phrase that Nick Cook used when he was talking about something I think Mr. Twigsnapper comes banging into my head again. PRIVATE army. Which would have meant Stephensons network.

So who else would have been associated with Stephenson then in the thirties .... during the time that Dr. Brown was shipping off on the Nashville?

Well, try the man who was his host on the Caroline! Eldridge Johnson! Or his partner. Wasn't he supposed to have "gotten out of the market before the crash". I was just reading about somebody else that did that exact thing. who was that? I can't remember. But in any case. This smacks of being an economic enterprise, not a military one. In fact, I am not even sure that the military wasn't their "handmaiden" Oh, ... wait, wait ..... it was Floyd Odlum that made all his money during and after the crash because he went to a cash position. So did Odlum and Johnson know each other? damn, this is interesting stuff.. grinder

[Victoria Steele]

grinder,

In that white suit picture ( I'll take Pauls' source here and accept that it was Bermuda and some sort of "demonstration") we know MUST be before December of 1936, cause isn't that when he lost his finger, and he has a whole set in the white suit picture.

And he stepped off the Caroline in 1933? so there is a period of time where he is both working for the NRL and has this this private association continuing? The thought that has interested me is ... What is DR. Brown doing at the University of Pa? (at least his mailing address) when he is still in the Navy? Thats REALLY confusing. Victoria

[Mark Culpepper]

Mikado,

I can see what you mean about needing a loose leaf notebook so that you can add information as it comes in to you.

Dr. Brown is divorced from his wife as he heads off to England.(shipping out in 1938) He has knowledge of a gold shipment strangely noted as 5o million. Did Dr. Brown himself tell William Moore during an interview for that article in 1978 that he had 15 other physicists working with him ... and that they had 50 million dollar budget? If not Dr. Brown, who told Mr. Moore that?

So what are the FACTS. that Dr. Brown was on the ship, that he made note of gold being brought on board and left that note in his personal files. The gold shipment has been substantiated and is noted in other records regarding the Nashvilles maiden cruise.

Now Moores comments. About 50 million and a program with 15 other Doctors working under Dr. Brown ... thats pretty specific information. Is there a note from someone somewhere that mentions those fifteen Drs. Who are those men/women? Mark C.

[Mark Culpepper]

And another thing. even if you could send from point A to point B and they could "recieve " ... what are they receiving? I mean. So you can make a chart go up and down in spikes. How do you change that into a "language". See what I mean. Does the incoming message "sound" like anything? See, I have not idea if it would even translate into something that could be turned into any kind of information transmitting medium.

And how long would that have taken to do? First I think, if you are just looking at chart recordings, which seems to be what Dr. Brown was doing ..... do you look then for spikes and lows ..... flat areas? ...... if you could send that identical signal would it be translated the same way on the other end? And my mind is boggled. How then do you translate that into something that says " Come Here Watson, I need you!"

All the while this is being worked out I suspect the guys on the receiving end can not know at all what it is that they are charting. Then what happens? How do they compare notes? I am just looking for the physical needs of such an operation. Do they have "runners" then collecting the charts from both places and delivering them to Dr. Brown? I can see that this is not going to be easy. And physically..... if you have been studying this radiation for years and charting its influx ... its highs and lows .... how do you make it high?, make it low? Do you suppose that Dr. Brown had anyone else at all that he could even talk with? And if not, no wonder he had a round the clock bodyguard.

And even if you could develop a "language" it would have to be something that you would understand but that no one else would? I suspect though that no one ever even got that far, no matter who they were or who they were working for. This is a technology that wouldn't even be recognized in the first place, much less studied seriously. What was it that Dr. Browns professor said. Manipulation of gravity in any way was "impossible and not to be considered"?

And during this time he can't even confide in Josephine. Sheeze. Mark C.

[Mikado14]

Interesting response Mikado. "Too soon" you say .... which tells me that you are on a trail yourself and that information doesn't quite match up. I'll be interested to see where it is that you think that your trail is taking you.

I am not being rude, mind you and with all due respect to the forum but, this topic was addressed by Dr. Brown and the first test transmitter was not built until 1952, in his words, in this forum.

The only trail in regards to a transmitter is within this forum already posted by someone.

Mikado

Hint: What is Florida referred to in regard to one of the solstices?

[Victoria Steele]

Mikado,


I am a little lost (so what else?)

You say that Dr. Brown himself mentioned a transmitter? Somehow that bit of information has been caught somewhere else in my brain, and must have gotten covered up! Can you help me out here at all? Where was this "transmitter" mentioned?

I have a vague memory of that picture of Dr. Brown standing beside a tower that someone in Canada had identified as an MI5 tower located in England. Dr. Brown was wearing a leather jacket and I can remember the discussion of what year it was because his jeans were rolled up . I thought that the consensus was that it was probably 1955 or so (he WAS in England with Mr. Twigsnapper in 1956) Is that the "transmitter that you are talking about? If so I think that we have sort of "split our forces here" and are talking about two completely separate things. But like I said, I could be entirely wrong.

Are you talking about something referred to as a "gravitational communications system?" Or something else?

I need to refresh my memory. I am sure that you are absolutely right but its not coming to the top of my brain right now. Help? Not built until 1952? Are you referring to something that was demonstrated at Pearl Harbor? Or something else? truely, I am lost! Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Actually, a "language" wouldn't be that hard to transmit. Morse code is a language in the form of dots and dashes. A more complex language can be anything from AM and FM transmissions, MRI and cat scan images, television, infrared, satellite images, CCD cameras, etc. which all take some range of electromagnetic patterns, break them down, and reconstruct them into a coherent structure.

More importantly though, it is the transmission of information. The field of quantum transmission, and the predicted technology of teleportation is based on the transmission of information.

Remember that the construction of a transmitter is rather a ambiguous statement, because the scope of the project is unknown. With this new technology, I propose that it probably took some time to develop into the state where a serious transmitter could have been built. The difference between testing matched sensors and building a transmitter can be a bit of a stretch in time.

Andrew

[Victoria Steele]

So Andrew, if you had a "gravitational radio" at your disposal, and it was capturing incoming messages somehow. What would that look like? Could you put speakers to it? Would it sound like anything? I am totally puzzled and having a hard time visualizing what we are actually talking about here.

I have read a little bit about " quantum entanglement" so I get the principle...... I know that they say there could be thousands of channels involved but the actuality of it eludes me. (And the rest of the world I am sure)

I am asking a silly question probably, as if it would be simple to answer. darn. Victoria

[Trickfox]

Ok everyone..... I know you are all curious about exactly how this communication system might have worked, however I'm not sure it would be a wise thing to try to describe the details of it in this forum.

For one thing, this system did not work at all in the same fashion as ordinary radio so you had best forget anything about electromagnetic wave propagation because it as very little to do with the way the information got from one place to another.

Secondly, "Electromagnetic" spectrum usage is presently "Conserved". This means that you cannot broadcast two radio signals on the same frequency whereby the two radios are relatively close to each other. In the late seventies "Truckers" used to try and outdo each other with stronger and stronger powered CB radios. The problem occured when two truckers pushed their "push-to-talk" buttons and tried to transmit on the same frequency at the same time with enormous high wattage power RF amplifiers. One of the two cb radios usually went up in smoke.

Conflicting high powered radio waves on the same frequency means dissaster for the weakest of the two. That is also the principle behind "remote controlled bomb jammers".(my apologies to some jammer manufacturers).

I'm sorry but I cannot go into details about how Dr. Brown's communication technology might have worked in detail because it is difficult enough to understand how ordinary RADIO works, now imagine how something LIKE radio but completely different could possibly work.

Besides it was difficult enough for me to understand and it took me over ten years to beging understanding the principles involved. I am an FCC licensed Radio System operator. (meaning that I can service TV and Radio station transmitters).

All the years I spent repairing, servicing then eventually engineer radio systems did not even serve to prepare me for the task of understanding how electrogravitic communication system worked.

THAT is how different and wonderful this technology is.

What I never stopped to think about is the possibility that for years we have been turning our antennas towards the open sky and pointing them towards all the other star systems looking for RADIO signals from intelligent life. We were so self assured that ordinary radio (a-la Marconi) was the only technology capable of sending communication through space.(empty or not).

How dared we declare that radio systems functioned exclusively with "electromagnetics". In doing so we cornered ourselves into one way of thinking.

Dr. Brown in his genius moment decided to throw out this foundation and started over again by investigating electrogravitic communication principles, and perhaps,..... just perhaps,....... he discovered that everyone else in the universe was already using this system rather than RADIO.

Cependant, quand on découvre une nouvelle langue, on découvre un tous nouveau monde.

Trickfox.

[Victoria Steele]

Thank you Trickfox for pointing out that I am not alone in feeling over my head with this! I appreciate it. Its true. Everybody has spent all this time searching the stars for incoming radio waves .... and if anybody or thing is out there, they probably don't even use that system!sort of like trying to string a couple of cans together, yelling into one of them and wondering why no one else has bothered to pick up the other can. Sometimes I think we must be worth a good chuckle! Victoria

[Chris Knight]

Victoria,

No worries. Let's start from the basics. Forgive me if this is too basic, but bear with me. A capacitor consists of two plates of conducting material, say copper or silver, separated by a distance. If the two plates are connected to a source of power like a battery, electrons will move from the plate connected to the positive terminal of the battery to the plate connected to the negative terminal of the battery until the voltage across the plates equals the voltage of the battery (this is all a greatly simplified view, of course, but OK for our purposes).

So you end up with a negative number of electrons on one plate and a positive number of electrons on the other plate. If you disconnect the capacitor from the battery, the voltage will remain on the capacitor until you connect something between the plates like a lamp. The electrons will then flow from the negative plate through the lamp to the positive plate until the number of electrons on each plate equalize and the voltage reaches zero, so the capacitor is acting like a battery. The lamp would shine most brightly when first connected, and dim over time as the number of electrons (current) flowing through it decreased.

Bear with me.

Now, two conducting plates don't really hold all that many electrons, but by putting a dielectric material between the two plates, the capacitor can be made to store much more charge (difference in electrons between the two plates) at the same voltage. Here's how it works. Many molecules have, based on the configuration of atoms, a positively and a negatively charged side. These materials are said to be polar, or have a dipole moment.

Most materials have a dielectric constant (K) typically 2-5. The dielectric constant being a measure of how much it increases the charge across the two plates of a capacitor when placed between the plates. The dielectric constant is relative to a vacuum (K = 1). Mica has a K = 3.5, and so on, but water, for example, which we all know is polar, has a K = 80 or so.

So let's take two metal plates, submerge them in water, and hook the two plates up to a battery. As an electron moves from the positive plate to the negative plate, a little molecule of water will align itself (similar to a magnet in a magnetic field) so that its positive end is facing the negative plate, and its negative end is facing the positive plate. This effectively neutralizes one electron difference between the two plates, but since the voltage is still across the capacitor, the battery will supply more electrons to the negative plate until the voltage across the capacitor equals the voltage across the battery.

Now imaging billions of water molecules aligning up between the plates and neutralizing billions of electron differences. What you end up with is the original electrons necessary to support the voltage across the capacitor, plus the billions of electrons neutralized by the water molecules. Therefore, you end up with a capacitor that can supply much more current at the same voltage as you could without the dilectric.

OK, still greatly simplified.

Remember Townsend's first sensors were rocks with silver electrodes painted on them. One of his best sensors was a piece of Koolau basalt from Hawaii. The rocks acted as the dielectric material and the silver electrodes acted as the capacitor plates. In order to charge up a capacitor, you need a "battery" or source of voltage/current. Townsend found that his sensors were spontaneously polarizing at a rate high enough to show a measurable voltage across the silver electrodes. That was the first issue - where was the source?

The second issue was that there seemed to be a series of fluctuations in the voltage that consisted of white noise (random fluctuations), short-term and long-term sinusoidal patterns, and large and small, positive and negative "glitches." It was this that he seemed to find so interesting.

In one report, he discusses the effect of charging/discharging a capacitor on another separated and electromagnetically shielded capacitor. That right there is the basic form of information transmission.

Now, let's take the basest model - two separated cylindrical pieces of rock with silver electrodes painted on each end. One piece is hooked up to a voltage source and microphone. The voltage across the piece charges/discharges with the sinusoidal wave pattern of someone speaking into the microphone.

The second piece is set up with an amplifier and an speaker. The second piece "senses" the charging/discharging of the first piece and produces a corresponding change in voltage, which is amplified, and heard through the speaker.

There are numerous different configurations. As to the number of frequencies, there appears to be a corresponding graitational effect for every electromagnetic effect, so while there are a lot of AM/FM stations out there the electromagnetic spectrum (and correspondingly the gravitational spectrum) can be split up almost infinitely. Apply that to the gravitational radio (we call it WGRV), that's a pretty powerful instrument.

Oh of course, an electromagnetic receiver couldn't pick up a gravitational transmission, because of the difference in technology.

I see that Trickfox has beat me to the punch, but hopefully our two post compliment each other.

Andrew