Seeds dropped in a field

[Mark Culpepper]

Kahlil Gilbran once wrote this of our future and I have a feeling that he and Dr. Brown were somehow on the same cosmic wavelength.

"But the children of tomorrow are the ones CALLED BY LIFE and they follow it with steady steps and heads high. They are the dawn of new frontiers, no smoke will veil their eyes and no jingle of chains will drown out their voices. They are few in number but the difference is as between a grain of wheat and a stack of hay. No one knows them but they know each other. They are like the summits which can see and hear each other, not like the caves, which cannot hear or see. They are the seed dropped by the hand of God in the field, breaking through its pod and waving its sapling leaves before the face of the sun. It shall grow into a mighty tree, its root in the heart of the earth and its branches high in the sky."

Mark C.

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

So Mark,

If good seeds can be dropped in a field and expected to sprout into these wonderful trees for the betterment of mankind. Can bad seeds be cast also? And then what happens? Are they the caves instead of the mountains? Do the caves communicate? No, I guess that Gilbran says they neither hear nor see. Boy do I know some people like that.

But I do get the feeling that in some situations SOME people pick up on new ideas as the gifts they are while others don't want to even talk about something new. Then when pressed they get angry and upset and they don't even know why. I am sure that Dr. Brown ran into those people all the time. How discouraging. What a shame! But so true.

And some people sit in caves and plan on spreading even more seeds of despair and destruction. Do the mountaintops, which Gilbran says communicate, do they know about these caves? Can they do anything about them? Should they? Or would the balance then be shifted?

So does nature or "this creative force" have a way of swinging the balances between the caves and the mountain tops? As I see it, both are important in nature. Both have their own purpose.

Perhaps just being able to recognize which is which sometimes might be the most important thing ever. But I can see that there might be a struggle here that naturally sets itself up. Just a passing thought.

Elizabeth

[Mikado14]

So does nature or "this creative force" have a way of swinging the balances between the caves and the mountain tops?
Elizabeth

I thought in a previous post elsewhere you said that "force" was not a good word to use.

So now I am totally confused when I read this, so,,,is this force a push or a pull?


In regards to Gilbran and what Mark posted, I believe, and this is my interpretation and opinion, is that he was talking in terms of youth. They are not clouded with the smoke from lost battles, they have no skeletons knocking on their door, they are fresh and born anew. To go forth and make new experiences, to seek out new truths based upon their new views, irregardless if they traverse a road travelled by others for their new eyes will see the road differently than old eyes. His reference to caves are those that live within the cave and only can view life through the opening, what some may call going through life with blinders on. Gilbran was only talking about the exuberance of youth and that the future belongs to them as they start life anew and view the world through new and fresh eyes and ideas.

If that seed that is dropped be bad or good, it has no bearing on this "force" you bring forth.

.......................................Pause..............................

A thought just hit me. For such an optimist or should I say "glass half full" personality, did you post your response to see the responses that would come forth?

hmmmmm, What say Elilzabeth? You can be a deeper thinker and I don't believe you would have interpreted Gilbran the way you have.

Why do I feel that I have just been prodded?

Mikado

[Victoria Steele]

Mikado,

You just now noticed thats how Elizabeth operates? <g>

She has managed over the last several months to encourage conversations from all of us, but her touch is normally so light and loving none of us notice that she is doing it. Read through some of her posts particularly and you will see what I mean. She has rearranged my head more than once!

And I have learned that she sees things on a variety of levels, some of which I miss entirely. I think that might have happened with you too.

You say that Gilbran is talking about the youth, about their ability to be unfettered. But look closely at Elizabeths response. She sees that too but her question is "Why do SOME young ones take one path toward the mountains, and others take to the caves mentally? You see, when you mentioned the youth it was as if you assumed that ALL youth had that gift. But I think thats what Elizabeth is pointing out. Not all of them do! And the question is " Why is that?" And thats a pretty good question I think.

You ended up talking about the "force" word. And I had to laugh at that. Its so easy for all of us I guess, even after we have decided that something doesn't really work, to just go back to using it anyway. Sort of like old romances huh?

So, all I have to say is. Maybe look again at what Elizabeth has said here.

What prompted you to bring up the question " Is it a Push, or a Pull?" Of course I immediately thought of one of Pauls chapters which I think is a direct quote from Dr. Brown. And I keep remembering that through all of this he was talking communication with "something". (If I can't call it an "intelligence "force" whats a better word for this concept that has no word for it?) smiling here. Victoria

[Trickfox]

No one knows them but they know each other.

Boy, do I ever understand this feeling well.
I feel so alone sometimes, then I end up meeting great friends and I see them right through to their souls.

Now more than ever I believe it's time for many of us to experience the brotherhood of friendship based on a deeper understanding of the UNIVERSE.

Trickfox

[Mikado14]

Mikado,

You just now noticed thats how Elizabeth operates? <g>

She has managed over the last several months to encourage conversations from all of us, but her touch is normally so light and loving none of us notice that she is doing it. Read through some of her posts particularly and you will see what I mean. She has rearranged my head more than once!

And I have learned that she sees things on a variety of levels, some of which I miss entirely. I think that might have happened with you too.

You say that Gilbran is talking about the youth, about their ability to be unfettered. But look closely at Elizabeths response. She sees that too but her question is "Why do SOME young ones take one path toward the mountains, and others take to the caves mentally? You see, when you mentioned the youth it was as if you assumed that ALL youth had that gift. But I think thats what Elizabeth is pointing out. Not all of them do! And the question is " Why is that?" And thats a pretty good question I think.

You ended up talking about the "force" word. And I had to laugh at that. Its so easy for all of us I guess, even after we have decided that something doesn't really work, to just go back to using it anyway. Sort of like old romances huh?

So, all I have to say is. Maybe look again at what Elizabeth has said here.

What prompted you to bring up the question " Is it a Push, or a Pull?" Of course I immediately thought of one of Pauls chapters which I think is a direct quote from Dr. Brown. And I keep remembering that through all of this he was talking communication with "something". (If I can't call it an "intelligence "force" whats a better word for this concept that has no word for it?) smiling here. Victoria

I had a really long response to your post. I decided to delete and shorten it.

My oh my.

I never assume, I may draw empirical answers of which may or may not be wrong but I do not blatantly assume. Also, I read all posts at least twice to any response that I make and what I believe at this point, is that what Marc posted was a beautiful view of how youth start out in life. No more, no less and immediately a reference to this "force" is made. I did not make any reference to it for I do not believe in the use of that word as has been pretty much covered elsewhere. Further, I doubt that Gilbran had Dr. Brown in mind when he said that quote. I believe it is being hyper analyzed.


If my answer seems a little, or a lot, trite...I apologize. I am just being direct and mean no disrespect.

Best

Mikado

PS: the reference to push/pull was a joke, no more, no less because of the use of the word "force"

[Victoria Steele]

I have this feeling that you and I are still not understanding what each of us is trying to say to the other.

You ( am I wrong here, please correct me.) seem to be slighly puzzled that the word "Force" was brought up when you felt that it had already been dealt with and put aside?

and you decided to shorten your answer? Why do I feel a loss at that?

And try as I might, the "my, oh my." escapes me. <g>

And oh, my goodness gracious! Theres that "Assume" word again. But I never accused you of assuming anything! really, honest, I didn't!

You stated that what you took Gilbrans as a "beautiful view of how youth started out in life." NO MORE, NO LESS........... I have to suppress the urge to say .... oh heck .... I will say it. For a person who writes " there are more things "...... at the end of each message aren't you being a little quick to discount that both Elizabeth and Gilbran may have been talking about something else entirely? Maybe that push, and not a pull? You chose the words? Didn't you?

If so, then alright. That works for me.

Mikado I appreciate your directness. Hope it goes both ways because I know that the respect does. Victoria

[grinder]

You know, I have watched this discussion. Here is my two cents worth.

We don't know what true conciousness is. We don't know what intelligence actually is. We don't know if anything from outside helps in that process or if is ours alone. We just don't know.

Sooooo. Each one of us has contributions. And they might be close to the absolute truth of the matter, or far away. But its the process of talking and thinking that makes the difference.

So IF Dr. Brown was in some sort of communications with "something else" He (and IT, maybe) would have to deal with our current state of understanding. I expect that he might surround himself with people who were interested in the nature of "conciousness' as well as science. Maybe I am out on a limb here but I just remembered some of those remote viewing tests at stanford. They talked about conciousness studies too

Maybe someday there will be a breakthrough of understanding. But until then, if thats actually what might be happening, I sure enjoy watching you guys think. Sort of like mental smoke tests. grinder

[Mikado14]

I have this feeling that you and I are still not understanding what each of us is trying to say to the other.Victoria

I will try.

You ( am I wrong here, please correct me.) seem to be slighly puzzled that the word "Force" was brought up when you felt that it had already been dealt with and put aside?

I am not puzzled by the use of the word force, what does perplex me is that every little nuance at times or idea is attributed to this "force". Is there no free will anymore? Or how about creativity? If my life is completely written out for me somewhere in the cosmos are we just going through the motions and for whom?

and you decided to shorten your answer? Why do I feel a loss at that?

The reason for my response being shortened was stated in the last sentence of my first full paragraph in my post, I believe that we would be hyper analyzing the quote with the reference to this "force". You should not feel any loss.

And try as I might, the "my, oh my." escapes me. <g>

Uh....that was supposed to be erased from the answer I had deleted. If it upsets you, I will go and delete. I don't wish to offend, only intelligently discuss, it might be direct but discussion none the less.

And oh, my goodness gracious! Theres that "Assume" word again. But I never accused you of assuming anything! really, honest, I didn't!

Here is my answer from your words in your post:

You say that Gilbran is talking about the youth, about their ability to be unfettered. But look closely at Elizabeths response. She sees that too but her question is "Why do SOME young ones take one path toward the mountains, and others take to the caves mentally? You see, when you mentioned the youth it was as if you assumed that ALL youth had that gift. But I think thats what Elizabeth is pointing out. Not all of them do! And the question is " Why is that?" And thats a pretty good question I think.

You stated that what you took Gilbrans as a "beautiful view of how youth started out in life." NO MORE, NO LESS........... I have to suppress the urge to say .... oh heck .... I will say it. For a person who writes " there are more things "...... at the end of each message aren't you being a little quick to discount that both Elizabeth and Gilbran may have been talking about something else entirely? Victoria

Is that not similar to the quote from Eden Philpotts? Talking Gibran, how about this:

"The appearance of things change according to the emotions and thus we see magic and beauty in them, while the magic and beauty are really in ourselves. "

I suppose we could look at this and discuss many points but I for one wish to look at poetry or philosophies and what they mean to me. They point out memories of my life and experiences and the reader, who is me, feels a kinship to the writer. That is what I meant by no more, no less. And as to my message ending, my mentor, thirty odd years ago, would always say that to me. It was to make me look outside of the box, that the universe is not only within me but also outside and I am not the nexus of it, I am a part.

Maybe that push, and not a pull? You chose the words? Didn't you? Victoria

I believe I explained it before, I will do it again. It was humor directed at the use of the word "force". Force to me is energy at work. I took the push/pull thing from a previous chapter of a quote from Dr Brown. If you didn't see the humor and it offends you, I am sorry.

Respect, yes, for you as well as others, will always be there. Someones opinion is more than that. It is a view of the person, their feelings, what makes them them from their life's experiences and I will never ever lose respect for anyone here or elswhere, OK?

I have said, rambled and ranted enough for one post.

Best Victoria,

Mikado

[grinder]

Great response Mikado!~ Thats what I meant from my post which was sent about the same time. Responses like that get us closer and closer to the truth of things, whatever that is.

I agree with you that we are not the center, but I have a slightly different idea. What if there is no such thing as "from the outside" with this "other intelligence? Dr. Brown said that we were IN an aether that might be of an intelligent nature. No, maybe it was the Russian Kozyrev that said that, but I am sure that there work was entertwined. So maybe this "intelligence" is something we never see because we are in it and it is part of us. Hard to appreciate how important that invisible air is, until we don't have it to breathe.

grinder

[Victoria Steele]

How blind I was! I did use the word assume! After I looked at it, and decided to change it .... I still did not...... but in my mind I thought I had! Now thts interesting in its own twisted way. Thankyou for calling that to my attention.

Gilbran. Are you familiar with his "Two Cities"? He begins by saying that LIfe took me on her wings and bore me to the top of Mount Youth." So there we are going back to what you had said about his meaning of the earlier quote ......... but at the end of it .... Life had said ....." This is the city of the Past. Look upon it and ponder ....."

And it struck me thats what Paul has been doing with his story of Townsend Brown. Looking upon the past and pondering. Lifting parts here ........... "I saw churches built by faith and destroyed by doubt." and ""Storehouses of secrets guarded by sentinels of Concealment and pillage by Disclosure" (boy thats relevent) "Institutions of learning lighted by Intelligence and darkened by Ignorance."(that too_

" Then Life beckoned to me and said "Follow me. We have tarried here too long." and I replied " Whither are we going Life?"

And Life said " We are going to the City of the Future" and I said " Have Pity on me! I am weary and my feet are bruised and the strength is gone out of me. )Now, forgive me Paul .... but haven't you sort of said this, now and then? <g>)

but Life replied. "March on my friend. Tarrying is cowardice. To remain forever gazing upon the City of the Past is folly. Behold, the City of the Future beckons!"

Ah, quoting Gilbran. Dating myself. Victoria

[Martin Calloway]

Victoria, Mikado, Mark and everybody else, Hi!

Not addressing Paul here because I am trusting that he has his nose buried in his work and also trust that if we say something really provoking we will hear from him.

So, that in mind. I intend to open a "coup" on Chapter 7, since I note that it is on grinders least read list!

Maybe Paul is saying some things in this chapter that the rest of us can comment on in this post. I sense some similarities .

Here is an interesting quote from Paul ...... " It has often been said of great inventors and scientists as well as artists, musicians and writers that they arrive on Earth with certain ideas and information uniquely pre-coded into their brains. It often seems as if these seminal geniuses are vistied by a singular ability to draw from a different well of kinowledge than is readily available to the rest of us."

PRE-CODED? I am with you Mikado if you are saying ..... what? .........what does he mean by that and what brought him to those observations? Is this something that Dr. Brown wrote himself? or has it been translated somehow through the work of others?

He goes on to say that Tesla had mention his "eureka!" moment, when everything came to him all at once. And drawing from his experience studying Farnsworth he mentioned that mans single moment also.

And then Paul says something truely different from the idea of "pure inspiration" .......... he uses the phrase (Pauls words now, Chapter 7 ). "Perhaps these individuals are chosen by the Creator of the Universe to recieve a cosmic "technology transfer". Its almost as if they have their own specialized wireless network through which they alone are permitted to download files from some vast, intergalactic computer." Now I don't know if he was being down and dirty dead serious, or he was just indulging in some wistful weasel word thinking. Notice that he did use the word PERHAPS, which is very unlike Paul. So which is it, I wonder? Does he REALLY think that Dr. Brown was actually receiving "downloaded information" from another intelligence? and he used the PERHAPS word just to buy some wiggle room in case things got too hot in the kitchen?

Something to ponder on , huh? Martin

[Trickfox]

The subject that Martin has just brought up here is an issue I've been tackling for a long time. Does an idea exist without a human brain to think of it? Does a concept have form without the observer's participation?

I found this statement by Kurt Goëdel in a metaphysics quarterly journal: "Classes and concepts may be conceived as real objects existing independantly of our definitions and constructions".
This struck me as being a very important metaphysical issue related to the direction of TIME.

Almost any physicist will begin universal theory by explaining that "in the begining there existed a void", then "an explosion of matter came about".

I often express to my friends (and anyone willing to listen) that the arrow of time which brings forth this explanation of "The Begining" is perhaps missunderstood. What if "in the begining" the Void did NOT exist, and instead "THE ALL" existed without any void. Perhaps the big bang was a method by which emptiness, and subsequently SYMETRY was created.

The inescapable conclusion would indicated that every idea, concept, and otherwise assemblage of knowledge existed within the singularity of "The ALL"

Like a white cow in the middle of a snow storm, there was no way to distinguish individual concepts, because the ability to distinguish anything would need a pre-requisite SYMETRY. Thus "The void" is created within the big bang and ideas, concepts, and asemblages become monolithic in nature. This also goes along with Goëdel's proclamation that concepts and ideas exist independantly of the human mind.

In order for us to understand these ideas more clearly, all we have to do is carefully observe how domesticated animals interpret basic ideas such as food, defecation, companionship, etc. Obviously animals understand basic NO and YES concepts. They are unable to understand what we consider to be "Abstract" concepts such as "Deception". The idea/concept of deception exists independantly of the animal's capacity to understand it.

I submit that perhaps the word "creation" is a complete falshood and demonstrates our self-glorification or self-importance in the face of the vastness of the universe.

How often has a sculptor responded to someone's question "how did you come up with this". In many cases the sculptor's answer is:"the form was allready in the stone, and all I had to do is remove the excess rock to find it".

Trickfox.

[Mikado14]

Trickfox, it is good to see you are still plugging away.

I like your post and I see your meaning....I believe I would have to agree. You have given me a very good ponder for the evening.

One question, I believe what you said would apply to either the big bang or the plasma theory, in either case, a void existed. I just answered my own question,,,,geez.

Take care my friend,

Mikado

[Mikado14]

I agree with you that we are not the center, but I have a slightly different idea. What if there is no such thing as "from the outside" with this "other intelligence? Dr. Brown said that we were IN an aether that might be of an intelligent nature. No, maybe it was the Russian Kozyrev that said that, but I am sure that there work was entertwined. So maybe this "intelligence" is something we never see because we are in it and it is part of us. Hard to appreciate how important that invisible air is, until we don't have it to breathe.

grinder

Good Day to you Grinder!

I will go out on a limb here and tell you what my Tibetan mentor told me.

For mankind to describe what it is that binds the universe together would be akin to a dog quoting Shakespeare. I don't know if I would have said it quite like that but the point was made. How can we find the words to describe something that is beyond our ability to fully understand what it is. I guess we could go back to the Cargo Culture thing but I believe you understand.

There are several things that are in the universe that we as humans can utilize, I will tell you of two. The first can be referred to as an energy or a force, it is the life force. It flows through everything and makes us all one. It can be utilized in deep spiritual meditation to perform healings, both spiritual and physical (I won't go into either) but most important of all it gives us the ability to access the second which is the Akashic Record. All that ever was, is or will be in the universe, for time does not exist for it.

It is my belief that certain individuals come into this plane of existence with the natural ability to access the record at certain times when the conditions are right. I further believe that this is preordained by the individual prior to their incarnation here.

Now, I suppose that will spark a few comments. However, understand this, I am only giving you my view, what I believe and what I have experienced in life to be true for me, and yes, I do believe in reincarnation.

Mikado