Sanskrit

[Mark Culpepper]

Mr. Twigsnapper!

I just read your question and I hope that you will note that I am the kid out there with his hand in the air, muttering and bouncing in my seat like any kid would who , for once , KNOWS the answer to a tough question.

I KNOW THIS !!!!!!!

The reason they were translating the ancient texts themselves was because they didn't trust the initial translations. WHY ,YOU ASK?

Because the original translators like Griffith, H.H. Wilson and others were CHRISTIANS. Even if they didn't mean to, they had an agenda that colored the way they translated the words presented to them! Think about it this way folks. Would you think that Hindu men could translate your Bible from original texts? ...... would it be the Bible that you have come to know? Absolutely not. And here we have Christians translating text that is actually foreign to their understanding. Some of those words and stories are going to get tweaked!

Am I right? Huh? Huh? Mark C

[twigsnapper]

Absolutely right Master Culpepper. A gold star for you!

Now think too what that will mean in future "looks" at those Vedic texts.

Partially because of the misinterpretations provided to them, western scholors felt vindicated in ignoring these texts. They misread what had been said, interpretted words and phrases incorrectly. Sidelined them as "mysical poetry".

For one thing, they said that the Vedas showed no evidence of large empires in India THAT WERE NOT BROUGHT IN FROM ELSEWHERE.

Suddenly the beauty and history of an entire early empire was relegated to a back row. What had in truth been a MIGRATION became a history of conquest from outside sources. A pattern of ignoring contrary evidence began to happen and in essence the true story of the Veda culture was covered up by those who felt it more important and more plausible that there was an "Aryan Invasion" of "fairskinned peoples".

In future years I will be willing to bet you, as the viewpoint shifts in science it will also shift in history and information that has been incorrectly set aside for centuries will come to light. Anybody else care to comment?

We are going against the grain of "common knowledge" here so I expect someone to raise his hand and say ....... "wait just one moment!" ...... thats what makes this forum the wondrous entity that it is. Twigsnapper

[Paul S.]

Hey Kids...

I know, long time no see... I've been traveling this week... a college reunion (of sorts, since I only attended a college, sorta) over the weekend and then a couple days visiting family at a lake in Western MD.

This evening I re-watched "Enigma" and I commend it to all of you haven't seen it. It's a very well layered story, demonstrates nicely the many facets of intrigue that went into winning the War. Some of the dialog is a little tough to follow, though, since the story is very intricate and depends a lot on spoken exposition, so you might want to watch it with the subtitles displayed, as I just did.

quote="twigsnapper"]And speaking of the movie "Enigma". Did you notice Paul, what was hiding the key? [/quote]

Yeah, I noticed. <g>

And Paul, Take a look at the blonde, unnattached and actually unidentified, at the end of the movie. I believe that her name was "Claire" but for my two cents .... as the main character noted .... as long as she was out there she would be a "sword". Her name should have been "Caroline". Twigsnapper

Hmmmm.... interesting observation. I'll just encourage you all to see the movie and you'll understand exactly what Twigsnapper is suggesting.

--PS

[Mark Culpepper]

I think that I might understand what Mr. Twigsnapper means about that character in the movie "Enigma" ..... I noticed that there is alot said about her from the different characters .... but nobody really knows who she was, or what she was up to. They all saw Claire from their own particular perspectives and they were so wrapped up in those particular individual views that I think all of them missed who she actually was. She apparently didn't work entirely for the mysterious spy hunter, but he thought that she did .... her ex lover supposed that she had fallen for the polish codebreaker who was going to turn information over to the German sub ...... but I doubt that was part of her agenda either. And its interesting that Mr. Twigsnapper pointed out that the main character said to the spycatcher ...."As long as shes out there she will be a sword over your head". Now thats a really interesting line.

And isn't it interesting this line "And thats all there is to it" and the spycatchers response was something like "Its never all that it is" or something like that. I enjoyed it too, the first time around, but I think I need to own it. Too interesting.

Did you notice that they mentioned that crossword puzzle competition? I thought of all that Mr. Twigsnapper had already shared with us when I heard that. Good research on somebodys part for the movie.

Mark C.

[Paul S.]

Did you notice that they mentioned that crossword puzzle competition? I thought of all that Mr. Twigsnapper had already shared with us when I heard that. Good research on somebodys part for the movie.

Yes, that was a very nice touch; Kate Winslet's character at one point laments, "I beat two men to win that cross-words competition, they hired all of us, now they're cryptanalysists and I'm a glorified file clerk."

I always did rather like how the Brits pronouce "clerk" as "clark."

--PS

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Hi everybody,

I have enjoyed this thread about the movie Enigma. Possibly because of Mr. Twigsnappers input I feel I know alot more behind the scenes. The fact, for example, that Bletchley Park was purchased by a private individual who basically donated the property for the war effort conducted there.

And seeing the various "huts" peopled and in operation was fun, especially the scene where one of the codebreakers offers a sloppy salute, and in response to the question of "what ship were you on?" the fellow says something like " Well you can't be expected to remember EVERYTHING" or some response similar to that.

I found the walling up the windows everynight an interesting and accurate touch .....

And the movie also pointed out that there was the constant concern that there was in fact a mole at Bletchley.( Mr. Twigsnapper says they never caught him. And its very interesting to me that at the very beginning of the movie that the tone for distrust is placed squarely in the Russian direction.)

I agree. An outstanding movie.

So, great raider of the lost arc treasures. Let us all know how you are faring in Washington . (Theres a mortifying thought. I can get lost in the Pentagon parking lot and thats the easiest of all of it.) Elizabeth

[Paul S.]

Oops... sorry I got off on this thread about "Enigma" here under the "Sanskrit" topic heading. I suggest we continue this discussion in the "Bletchly Park / Why Are We Here" topic:

viewtopic.php?t=269

--PS

[kevin.b]

When I am dowsing around French cathedrals, I sort of think in French, ask questions and say merci Beacoup.
I do the same in England, as i consider the last block of people who could really dowse were the French Chef de sorciers, or whatever they were called.
Anyway, if everyone and everything ends up in the soup as such, the aether, it would be awfully arrogant to think in American.
I already can hardly understand some Americans, imagine the poor old Pharoh trying to communicate.
Think like a cat, act like a cat, catch the cat.
Kevin

[Trickfox]

Tell me Kevin

Do you understand the concept that in French ALL objects have a gender?

That's right! Everything is either a male object or a female object and every young French child is taught how to distinguish which gender an object is. Same thing in Spanish, and Italian.
Tell me!! when you walk around those French cathedrals can you concieve if flowers are female, and Trees are males and fruits are female and the grass is male. So.... when you think in French, do you see this gender beauty plainly like a child learning about the world, or are you perhaps missing that type of concept alltogether?

Just trying to picture you beside a French Cathedral here.
Trickfox

[kevin.b]

Trickfox,
I have a huge problem with language, as well as words, its to do with dyslexia, i am 57, a 49 model, and it was never understood.
Many dowsers are left handed and dyslexic.
If i were writing this by hand, you would not comprehend, the screen really helps.
I dont even understand English.
My two grandsons are fluent in French, little sods and poke fun at me, I love though really.
Sorry I haven't a clue about gender, the french find me really funny, but they know I try, so thats ok.
I have traded in France for twelve years, without been able to communicate, clever Hey?
I know how to ask how much something is, and to say its too dear.
I should have explained, I consider it is a prime reason for no written knowledge having passed down, give me symbols, and I am in my element, thats why i really like dr Brown, he drew loads of pictures, there is more truth in a picture than a thousand words.
I also consider this is why I can cope with the complex patterns, its all about using both sides of your head.
I never spoke until I was just short of five years old, but everybody said how happy I was.
I had loads of friends in my head.
I probably was always well tapped in, I consider youngsters are, I watch them talking away to others, been downloaded as such.
It seems to shut off early in some, never in a select few, those few will recognise each other.
Where I am sat is a crossing point of many leylines, the commonest and most frequent are E/W and N/S , If when I am reading this etc, I often sort of doze off, then will wake and suddenly fire off like a rocket, I have no idea how i know things.
I also live within fifty yards of a norman church, the line through the centre of the aisle passes through my house, i sleep with that line hitting the centre of my head, and a N/s line crossing it, I have some bizzar dreams.
I didn't know I slept on that line until about a year ago, I am tuned in to this planet, or some planet ?
Kevin

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

You are among friends here Kevin, possibly more than you realized at first.

There have been some comments given to us regarding Townsend Brown. Some of them were " He knew everything all at once." " Where others learned what they knew by trial and error , he seemed to know everything, to the smallest detail in one brilliant flash and then he spent the rest of his time trying to explain what he already knew to others."

I imagine that thats what you go through sometimes. You KNOW what you KNOW but even trying to describe how you came by that information is difficult. And even without the problem with dyslexia (which probably actually helps you on the other side of the download) and even given an amazing command of the English language (or French or whatever) you would still be hobbled because THERE ARE NO WORDS for what you are trying to describe.

I don't know if you have had a chance to read a few of the posts about " remote viewing" but on there one lady (hello Richmond) tried to describe what the experience of remote viewing was like. She said it was a little bit like being a fish who had the ability to leap out of the water and actually see a cow grazing on a nearby pasture. Now back in the water and reporting to the other fish .... justt exactly in fish words do you use to explain a cow? It doesn't compute! Is that experience not valid because it cannot easily be explained? NO. Is the cow there? Certainly!

just coffee moneys worth. Elizabeth

[Trickfox]

Elizabeth is absolutely correct Kevin, You have found a group of people who understand you and some of us are LIKE you. Thank you for taking the time to respond to us, and to continue the dialog with us.

Trickfox

[kevin.b]

Thank you.
The ancient texts were more symbol based, Ii often go to the British museum, and just stare at the texts, they tell stories, sort of encripted stories, paint pictures of a story.
I end up reading the translations written by them, and end up laughing.
Perhaps this is why lots of past knowledge has been lost, the move to words has replaced the pictures ?
I was interested to read about Dr Brown and others perhaps communicating in such a way, the language would be easily deciphered, but the pictures would not be seen.
I have to concentrate on my tax returns for a few days, so I musn't read anymore, it will be some book.
Kevin

[Radomir]

Mark, you wrote:

Because the original translators like Griffith, H.H. Wilson and others were CHRISTIANS. Even if they didn't mean to, they had an agenda that colored the way they translated the words presented to them! Think about it this way folks. Would you think that Hindu men could translate your Bible from original texts? ...... would it be the Bible that you have come to know? Absolutely not. And here we have Christians translating text that is actually foreign to their understanding. Some of those words and stories are going to get tweaked!

My grandfather, who was a classical linguistics scholar, apparently felt that none of the current versions of the Bible were true enough to the original to be "true." He told my grandmother many times "If people could read this in the original, we wouldn't be in this mess we're in."

So I playfully submit that the same may hold true even for the text you hold up as an example of "well-translated." Every translator has his or her own historical context, prejudices and agenda(s) conscious or unconscious that affect their translation.

When I was in graduate school we heard the poet laurate who gave a talk on translation and its challenges with regard to poetry. Even if you have a translator who embodies fluency in two cultures and languages, with all faithfulness and effort the best you can do is come up with a second poem that as closely as possible evokes the similar images and emotional-intellectual response in the reader as the native version. But it will never be the same poem.

[twigsnapper]

You will soon see that Dr. Brown had a close companion who studied Sanskrit also. And your point is well taken. translations miss much and I submit that there were men who were extraordinarily interested in getting to the ROOT of ancient information. Points well made. twigsnapper