THE GREAT GAME

[Victoria Steele]

ALL:

I am starting this post because I think that our discussion of Kiplings book "Kim" is somehow strangely interwoven with things that "need to be said". If I am wrong, the post will just wither away and Paul can delete it all later, but I don't think thats going to happen.

I know, I know . Kim is supposed to be sort of a "boys" book. Full of high adventure and intrigue and the girls are usually around just to tend them when they are sick . Both Kim and the old wise man and the others in the story are sort of a "boys club" of that high adventure and most of the women are "left in the dust", just as Linda was left standing when Dr. Brown, Mr. X and Morgan went out on that sailing trip. So thats the only caution I have when drawing inspiration from Kim or observations Paul. Just don't leave the ladies standing on the sidelines the way he did! Thats the only thing I didn't like. I understood though when I read the book that Kipling was a reflection of his age and women were not even really noticed, except the really BAD ones or the really GOOD ones. With Kipling the women in his story are either Mother figures, or prostitutes. He actually thinks most of them just get in the way! (Like YUCK WHAT GOOD ARE THEY IN THIS GREAT GAME!) But of course I don't think we will be getting that from Paul. Right? right? I HOPE RIGHT!

Any body have anything else to say? Victoria well yes, I guess I do!

I still liked the story because when I grew up I sort of thought I would be good in Kims world, just living by my wits! making deals and scrambling over roofs in the darkness. Dealing with dangerous people and exciting situations. I thought I had the brain for it! Now, of course, reality has set in and I have my doubts.

But Paul. Are you familiar with KIM? If you haven't read it maybe you should cast a look in its direction because the story sounds strangely, STRANGELY familiar to me. (Its like looking in a mirror and seeing a face, but you are not sure its you, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN BY YOUR LOOKING GLASS MOMENT TRICKFOX?)

Kipling introduces a young street wise punk kid (Morgan?.... I think he is the one who said discovered that he had lived on the streets of New York City, realizing that it was better to be the "mugger" instead of the "muggee" GREAT LINE, ANYWAY) meets up (or even more accurately) is DRAWN to meet, with a kind natured wise man (Dr. Brown) (hello there Dr. Brown said when Morgan finally figured a way to go check Ashlawn out..)

Kims story proceeds on two levels. TWO storys running parallel but intersecting at different points, and that looks like what is happening here. basically his is the story of what Kim gets from the wiseman, what the wiseman draws from Kim and how they interact with each other.

And I thought just maybe that Kipling would give you some ideas on how to treat the telling of your story. I sense that there are many similar points, because, after all, history repeats itself. And universal themes are always there.

And the world of spies is where all of this story plays out. (And Dr. Brown, I think , has just entered that world, am I right?)

Anyway. All you great fans of Kipling. Here is a special pool all for yourself. Paul, if nothing important happens here or is of interest to you I won't be offended if you erase it. again, Victoria

[twigsnapper]

Ah, Victoria,

The roads not taken in our lives! I can just imagine that you would have been excellent doing the Kim thing over the rooftops etc.

I totally agree with your association with Kims story and with this character named Morgan. As I have seen it written so far Morgan is actually a great deal like Kim. He is looking for himself too. More stridently than the other fellows in that affluent highschool where he and Linda graduated. He was as that urchin kid sitting on that cannon. Breaking the rules from the very start but he was always so good natured about it .... Just as Kim. Kim was always comfortable and secure for some unknown reason, he effectively had no home, was sleeping wherever he could put his blanket down on the ground. Just as quick to roll it up and move on. The boy was resilient and always seemed to have a joy in the game, whatever it happened to be at the time.

Kim had no real father because of circumstances ,but he somehow ended up having two paternal figures in his life as he proceeded through it. One was the venerable lama who actually needed his company in his quest. The lama called Kim the " Son of my Soul" and he counted on Kim for physical protection in a side of the world that he neither understood nor really wanted to face.

And for his "second proud father" this urchin street kid had a military man looking over him and training him in the ways of "official" spying. (Not spying just for the sheer joy and excitement of it, or the lark of the adventure, but serious life and death training. The do it right or die type training. So in a way in his journey this Col. Creighton helped Kim too and looked upon him proudly as a son.

With this odd arrangement Kim enters a world that is secret on two layers. He is helping the lama on his secret mission, which even the most intelligence gatherers of the day have no concept of. The search and the communication with the "Inner World" The Search for the Hidden River.

Kims position is interesting because I agree with you Victoria. One shadow is cast on another ... to use an expression that Paul has used.

But its hard sometimes to be so direct Paul, when the saying with most in this world is the directive "Cast no shadow". Sometimes you have to look at other shadows, other times. Twigsnapper

[Elizabeth Helen Drake]

Victoria and Twigsnapper,

What a team you guys are! (I should dub this the Victoria-Twigsnapper book review club!)

And I realized while reading what you both had to say that I need to go get "Kim" myself. I have books piled on chairs, on the floor. Must get still another shelf ... really, this is ridiculous. One more book, whats another book? Right Paul?

Thankyou both! Your comments are wonderful!

And I can see that Mr. Twigsnapper is agreeing with Paul here, that in the writing of this book about the life of Townsend Brown (just as Paul has been saying all along, you can't look directly at his actions, you have to see lives that echo his and draw from those lessons too.) So VERY interesting!!!!

Any other comments from out there in our esteemed Peanut Gallery? Oh,oh ... I think that I just dated myself! Anyway .... If you have read these words and feel that you have something to add here or anywhere else on the Forum ... Please, please do! Elizabeth

[Mark Culpepper]

Hello everybody. This is the first time that I have actually decided to post anything. Can I just do it like this, using my Dads line? or do I have to register on my own?

Hope this is OK. He says he doesn't mind.

I have some questions.

Mr. Twigsnapper. So, am I right in making the connections that you were to Morgan as the Col. was to Kim? So I would have thought then that you would be English but you already said you were not. But I have figured it out! You threw me a clue about grey ponies and so now I know (I think ) where you were born. You are clever. Really. I thank you for that! What you have told me helps me on my search for what my grandfather was really doing!

And Elizabeth. Can you tell me what pulled you into being Pauls research assistant? How does a person get that kind of job? What do I have to do to go in that kind of direction?

And Linda Brown. I really think that you must be some sort of rider. I have talked to some people who rode against "Sem" riders in the 60s and they said that they were always tough. (Not so much because the school had terrific school horses but because the girls were wealthy enough to bring their own show horses to school with them when they enrolled. So did you have your horse sent down too? No such luck on this end I don't think. But was it worth it? Going to Sem? Did you go on to work with horses later? I just wondered because no one has really mentioned what you do now. Do you still have horses? What breed? English? Western? Sorry to take up Forum space with questions like this and Dad says that maybe I shouldn't be even asking. I sure don't want to "invade your privacy" as Dad warns. But is there some way that you could communicate with me? "Lisa"

[Paul S.]

Victoria writes:

But Paul. Are you familiar with KIM? If you haven't read it maybe you should cast a look in its direction because the story sounds strangely, STRANGELY familiar to me.

I must confess, I have not read "Kim." The discussion here, though, and elsewhere in the forums, has certainly piqued my curiosity, and I have placed my order for a paperback copy through one of the used booksellers at Amazon.com. I suspect it will be here before the end of the week.

The reference is timely... I've been wanting something I could sit down with for a while in the late afternoons to read, after my brain is fried from everything else that goes through it in the course of the day. Something that would serve as a "leisurely" read but still be somehow connected to what I'm doing the rest of the day (my brain has a "slow burn" setting but no real "off" switch...). This sounds like just the ticket. So, thanks eveybody for bringing it up.

--PS

[Mark Culpepper]

Paul,

It takes awhile to get to know what he is talking about but you sure learn alot about India and its different social structures. maybe some things have changed since the "white man put his burden down" in that area. But Kipling sure knows of what he speaks for that age.

And this is something that Lisa and I have been talking about. Not to wreck the ending for you, but at one point Kim is able to foil the plans of some enemy agents. But here is the cool part The enemy spies never know what has happened. They just think that their run in with Kim and Babu is just coincidence ... and it was a CHANCE ENCOUNTER with a street kid and a holy man that ruined their plans. They have no idea that Kim and Babu are actually agents. Hiding in plain sight.

I suggest to you thats the way that the Caroline Group probably works. The idea is to never be recognized. Actions never credited. Shadows never cast. What do you think? Sounds about right to me. Mark C.

[Paul S.]

I suggest to you thats the way that the Caroline Group probably works. The idea is to never be recognized. Actions never credited. Shadows never cast. What do you think? Sounds about right to me.

Sounds about right to me, too.

--PS

[Mark Culpepper]

So I can see your real problem here, more clearly than ever before. When you get an organization that is REALLY GOOD at what they do .... they have the technique of letting others take the credit .... and the blame , maybe, for actions that they have instigated. That way .... no one ever actually SEES them. Am I on the right track here? Because thats what Lisa and I are going to be facing. Whether or not her ideas will form into an actual book or not she is determined to collect the information . And THAT we are discovering has plunged us headlong into the same quantries that you have been experiencing.

I have been told already that all of Dads military records are somehow "missing." Is this what you went through?

And you have probably forgotten the little exchange that Linda and you had with Naval records .... where someone named "Brian Parks" had been there before you guys. You you remember that little exchange on the early forum? Did you ever figure out how that could have been possible, if only next of kin can get into those records?

I just find it strange that you would have trouble, with Lindas assistance, but a "Brian Parks" can dance right in there and get information. So is he someone we can ask about this? Or maybe we can just use the forum to ask him outright?

Or ... maybe I shouldn't disturb your train of thought right now, but if you run across anything or any answers in that direction I'd sure like to know. Mark C.

[Trickfox]

Its like looking in a mirror and seeing a face, but you are not sure its you, IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN BY YOUR LOOKING GLASS MOMENT TRICKFOX?)

yes indeed I'm on the edge of a black hole and it looks like a mirror surface. I'm approaching the event horizon and I see a reflection but it is misty, shaded, and looks to be different than me yet it behaves like me.

I see others beside me like Andrew and Pascal and Mark Bean. We are the curious who repeat the electrical high voltage discharges which have been performed over and over again over the past 40 to 50 years. We are all looking in this looking glass. Each of us has his own reflection but none of us see clearly who in on the other side, yet they appear to be ourselves in some way. It's a strange vision and I'm not sure anyone else see this the way I do. How about it Andrew? does any of this seem familiar here?

Trickfox

[Chris Knight]

Trickfox and all,

We all go through life saying some variation to the effect of, "if I had the opportunity to ___", or "if I could get a break I could ____," and we spend much of our conscious and unconscious life thinking on, wishing, and praying for that opportunity.

If we are then, by some rare chance, given an opportunity to pursue that desire, we are forced to make a choice in which direction we will go - to accept action leading in the direction of that opportunity or by active rejection or passive hesitancy to turn in an alternate direction.

At that point we can look at ourselves an see faint images of what we might be in the future. Then we have to ask ourselves if that is really us? Can we accept that path? Is that who I want to be?

It can seem daunting when one is given that rare opportunity, and we start asking the questions, "What if I fail?" "Will people laugh at me?" "Will I look like an idiot?" "Do I have the courage and the strength to be consistent and finish the course?" "What will happen?" and, of course, the inevitable, "What if I make the wrong decision?"

It can be a hard path, discouragement, dizzying highs, crashing lows, fear, irritation, and lots of plain, old hard work, sometimes with long periods between successes.

Personally, I think that the road I have chosen with this line of research is worth it - a multi-generational project, which I anticipate others with the same vision continuing at that point in time when I am unable to do so.

In any case, there's $0.03 for you ($0.04 in ME and NH).

Andy

[twigsnapper]

Andy,

Seems that you have a positive but realistic view of what is ahead of you. I comment that. I have a question for you though. Why is it worth a penny more in Maine and New Hampshire? Do you have plans to go in that direction?

Pretty county, Excellent colleges for research connections and of course an active scientific community. I understand that the lobster and clam chowder is considered special too. But for the weather, perhaps not a bad idea.

Twigsnapper

[Chris Knight]

Actually, I felt it was a bit more than my usual 2 cents worth, and wanted to throw in the CRV as well (bottles, cans, etc.) for added value

I'm from Dover, NH originally (my father taught at UNH), and have been trying to get back there ever since we moved to Ohio when I was 4. A few years ago my wife and I went shopping for a B&B along the ME coast to take over, and we still think about it now and again. Right now, we are looking for a place to move Qualight, and Exeter, NH is one of the choices.

Unfortunately, the restaraunt that made the best clam chowder I've ever tasted was recently torn down to make way for a couple of houses. It was right down the road from Nubbles lighthouse north of York Beach, but I hear there is another place in a nearby town that has a pretty good mix. I think it's called "Something's Fishy." Sorry to get started, but do you know how hard it is to get good clam chowder out here in California? Everyone wants to put celery and vegetables in it ! A travesty and a shame...

Andy

[Victoria Steele]

An indication of how very odd things can get...............

Anybody who thinks that this forum discussion doesn't have a total life of its own, go figure how the discussion of "The Great Game", (which is a reference to the English spying against the so called enemies of England in India think at the time it was ......Russia. Germany, France, the "horsesellers from the north (Afghanistan) and a whole slew of others I don't even recognize) ..... anyway isn't it odd that a discussion of a book written so many years agao has now morphed into a friendly exchange by an admitted agent (of some undisclosed country?) with a fellow who is an early follower of Townsend Browns work ....... about clam chowder in New England?

odd, odd, odd ...........

So, Andy and Linda. If you ever have your dream come true about that B&B in Maine, put me on your early registration, for like a yearly visit! I have always wanted to sit on the rocks there by that ocean and crack open a lobster ... oh boy,...... and no manhattan style clam chowder either, don't care what others say.

Near a lighthouse? Boy, thats romantic! Victoria

[Paul S.]

odd, odd, odd ...........

Lately its rabbit holes inside of rabbit holes.

I hope somebody remembered to pack fresh batteries for the flashlights.

--PS

[Mark Culpepper]

Paul,

Why bother to have batteries when Andrew is going to have a lighthouse someday in his own backyard!

And Victoria, you never give up do you? A romantic through and through.

Hey, Andrew ..... yeah .... clam chowder .... maybe a good view .... and ya gotta have a coupla really beautiful fireplaces.

Put my name down too. Mark C.