Hidden but why

[Rose]

Harking back to the Eisenhower presidency reminds me of two things, one rumored and one known to be true. If there is any truth to the rumor, perhaps the two are connected.

Rumored;
That Ike actually had a secret meeting with an ET delegation

Known to be true;
That he warned future generations of Americans to beware of the growing power of the Military-industrial complex. Very prescient for the time and place, I think.

I wonder what inspired that and what his buddies like Odlum thought about it?

ose

[Griffin]

Kevin-

Thanks for the Alien Interview link, as I hadn't seen it. Folks that were under classified weights sometimes throw them off as they near the end of their earthly tethers. Deathbed confessions and disclosures can trump secrecy. This has happened with some others, too. More will follow.

As ever,

Griffin

[Mikado14]

Let's take a look in regards to Matilda:

Just wanted to provide something of a clarification/warning about a book
being promoted on some sites. The name of the book is Alien Interview
written by Lawrence R. Spencer.


On the site for the book, there is an excerpt from a purported letter
written by Matilda O'Donnel MacElroy.

The signature block is:


Matilda O'Donnel MacElroy
Senior Master Sergeant
Women's Army Air Force Medical Corp, Retired
509th Bomb Group, Roswell, New Mexico


Part of the big problem here is that the rank of Senior Master Sergeant did
not come into existence until 1958. Wikipedia quote: “Although the Air Force
had been an independent service since 1947, the rank of Senior Master
Sergeant did not come into being until the authorization of the Military Pay
Act of 1958. This act established the pay grades of E-8 and E-9 but without
title. It wasn't until late 1958 that the title of Senior Master Sergeant
(and the accompanying rank insiginia) was decided upon after polling its
enlisted force.”


The other part of the problem is that the Army Air Force went out of
existence September 18th 1947 when the U.S. Air Force was established by the
National Security Act of 1947.


Mr. Spencer obviously didn't do his homework before consenting to sign his
name as the author. This tale, allegedly from a Roswell witness, by the
name of Matilda O'Donnel MacElroy does not hold up to scrutiny. Mr. Spencer
admittedly never met this person and only had a 20 minute phone conversation
with her 10 years ago wherein Ms. MacElroy refused to comment on anything
relating to the Roswell incident. Low and behold, 10 years later Mr.
Spencer claims he received a package (which he says he destroyed, so no
evidence remains) of documents and transcripts allegedly from Matilda
O'Donnel MacElroy but even Mr. Spencer can not verify the author and all
attempts he made resulted in no such person exists. But more importantly, he
claims Ms. MacElroy to be "Senior Master Sergeant
Women's Army Air Force Medical Corp, Retired, 509th Bomb Group, Roswell, New
Mexico" and boldly states so on the cover of the book. The rank of "senor
master sergeant" didn't exist in 1947 and the Army Air Force went out of
existence September 1947 . There is no way possible that Ms. MacElroy (even
if she did exist) could have retired from a non-existent military group. I
wouldn't waste one minute reading this book or giving the contents any
credibility what so ever. Consider it another well crafted psyop
perpetrated by the massive propaganda machine already in place which wants
people to fear aliens.

If you wish to see the entirety:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.alie ... 3?lnk=raot

Mikado

[Langley]

Langley-

I didn’t go “huh?” back then. .....
A sign of the times changing -- not only the first black presidential candidate, but the first to take a clear anti-nuke stance......

Griffin

I apologise for writing that about people who hadnt heard of Pugwash. That was arrogant of me. Very bad.

What would be good would a TV series that combines "Happy Days", "The Wonder Years" and "The Atomic Bomb Movie." Bert the Turtle could be the narrator.

[Langley]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beginning_or_the_End

http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/18/berger18art.htm
...letters from even Los Alamos (home of the laboratory which built the original bombs) complimenting Campbell on his editorial policy, the self-congratulations extended into the network of amateur, fan-published newsletters which had existed since the thirties.9 Forrest J. Ackerman, among the most prominent of active fans, used his "fanzine" Glom to reprint an article by W. Bradford Shank, a physicist and member of the Federation of Atomic Scientists, who credited science fiction writers:

not . . . because their fevered imaginings have pointed the way for research, but because they have sold a substantial bloc of the American people the idea that scientists can do almost anything.... Writers and cartoonists with much less knowledge but a better sense of the inherent accelerating tendency of technological progress . . . presented atomic power in all sorts of applications.10

10. W. Bradford Shank, "Need Shown for Scientific Not Fictional Prophecy," Glom, No. 4, Apr. 1946. after initial publication in the Los Angeles Daily News, Apr. 5, 1946.

http://www.atomicbombcinema.com/english ... end_16.htm
ATOMIIC EXPERTS COME TO HOLLYWOOD
The first to arrive was the man whose letter had started the whole thing, Dr. Edward Tompkins. the scientist who had written his suggestion for an atom bomb picture to Donna Reed, was sent to Hollywood by the Association of Oak Ridge Scientists. He remained ten weeks, rendering advice throughout the writing of the script. Joining him at the studio was another scientist, Dr. W. Bradford Shank of the Federation of American Scientists, who was associated with the development at Los Alamos.....This corps of technical advisors, believed the largest ever employed on a motion picture. was unanimous in commending Hollywood for its all-out effort to make a picture in keeping with the importance of its subject. Dr, Wensel, who as Chief of the Technical Division of the Manhattan District and Technical Aide to the Chairman of the Office of Scientific Research and Development toured every major atomic installation in the country, was particularly impressed, both with Hollywood's effort and with the urgent need for such a film..
....Dr, Shank augmented these views by saying, "The atomic question is the most vital one before the whole world today. Whether we are alive ten years from now or not, whether we live in caves or in cities, depends upon how many average people concern themselves with this problem.

"It is my opinion, and that of the men of the Federation of American Scientists with whom I have talked that this motion picture will do a definite good in helping to inform the people of the destructive potentialities of the atom bomb, and in highlighting the possibilities for peace time application of atomic energy. Its value, too, is that it will reach the mass of the people -- and they, not just a handful of leaders, will solve the problem if it is to be solved."

It is in recognition of a duty to mankind, as well as of a human story of rare significance. that Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, with unique attention to authenticity has filmed .'The Beginning or the End." Starring

BRIAN DONLEVY • ROBERT WALKER

with

TOM DRAKE • BEVERLY TYER
AUDREY TOTTER • HUME CRONYN
HURD HATFIELD • JOSEPH CALLEIA
GODFREY TEARLE As President Roosevelt
VICTOR FRANCEN • RICAHARD HAYDN

JONATHON HALE • JOHN LITEL
HENRY O"NEILL • WARNER ANDERSON
BARRY NELSON
ART BAKER as President Truman
LUDWIG STOSSEL as Dr Albert Einstein

Screen Play by FRANK WEAD
Original Story by ROBERT CONSIDINE

Director of Photography RAY JUNE, A.S.C.
Film Editor GEORGE BOEMLER
Musical Director DANIELE AMFITHEATROF
Recording Director DOUGLAS SHEARER
Art Direction CEDRIC GIBBONS
HANS PETERS
Set Direction EDWIN B. WILLIS
Associate KEOGH GLEASON
Special Effects WARREN NEWCOMBE
A. ARNOLD GILLESPIE
Associate DONALD JAHRAUS
Montage Effects by PETE WALLBUSCH
Costume Supervision IRENE
Make-Up Created by JACK DAWN


Scientific Technical Advisors:

DR. H.T. WENSEL
DR. EDWARD R. TOMPKINS — Oak Ridge, Tennessee
DR. DAVID HAWKINS — Los Alamos, New Mexico
W. BRADFORD SHANK— Los Alamos, New Mexico


Military Technical Advisors:

WILLIAM A. CONSODINE, COL. — Manhattan Project
CHARLES W. SWEENEY, Lt. Col. A.C.
With Acknowledgements to Mr. TONY OWEN
for his Cooperation


Produced by SAMUEL MARX

Directed by NORMAN TAUROG

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/22672/ ... -on-Plasma
Engineers forum. interesting links in there to. You Tube of that ion saucer.
etc.
I first heard of Townsend Brown and his Biefeld-Brown Effect from
Mr. Arlin C. Hauser. Hauser is a designer and builder of fine
technical instruments in Pasadena who doesn't hold an idea at arms-
length because it is "new". Hauser furnished me a copy of a
monograph titled, "A SIMPLIFIED EXPLANATION OF THE APPLICATION OF
THE BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT TO THE SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS OF SPACE
NAVIGATION". This monograph was published by Dr. Mason Rose,
president of the University for Social Research, Los Angeles, but
was actually written, I learned later, by Mr. Bradford Shank, a
nuclear scientist, formally of Los Alamos, now engaged in
engineering work for a Los Angeles aircraft valve manufacturer.

Some of the information set forth in this monograph rang a bell way
back in my memory.

Between 1919 and 1925 I was "errand boy" in a laboratory conducting
experiments with high potential, high frequency alternating
currents. We were playing with a million volts at 750,000 cycles
per second! A new type of electrical condenser had been built and
was to be tested. It was hooked into the circuit but was not
"bolted down" - it was heavy.

The director stood at the switchboard; the rest of us at a
respectful distance away. The switch was thrown. There was a hum,
a bursting flash of green and purple light, a loud bang, a violent
lurch and twist of the new condenser and that piece of apparatus lay
a smoking ruin! The director said, "Gentlemen, our baby has grown
up!"

Oh, that thread is quoting this:
http://reallycoolscience.com/ttbrown-01.html
Andrew Bolland and Mark Bean contributing to that site.

Weird:
The google result reads:
[PDF]
ALAMOS SCIENTIFIC LABORATORY the
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
done at the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory. Journal articles, books, ...... Shank, Walter Bradford, Gurinsky, David H., and. Creutz, Edward C. ...
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lan ... 371230.pdf

Which is:
LA-2895 Supplement
SpecialDistribution
LOS ALAMOS SCIENTIFIC LABORATORY
of the
University of California
LOS
Report
Report
ALAMOS l NEW MEXICO
written: August 19, 1965
distributed:September 23, 1965
Selected Bibliography of Publications
of LASL Research
1957-1962
(Supplement)
by
Barbara Hendry:

Shank, Walter Bradford, Gurinsky, David H., and
Creutz, Edward C.
METHOD OF MEASURING CORROSION AND EROSION.
2,519,323.
Patented Aug. 15, 1950.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2519323.html

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2887876.html

(http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/sec_subscribe. ... DID=194009)
possible context - speculation
and

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.bibl ... id=6580353
Title Machining of uranium and uranium alloys
Creator/Author Morris, T.O.
Uranium and uranium alloys can be readily machined by conventional methods in the standard machine shop when proper safety and operating techniques are used. Material properties that affect machining processes and recommended machining parameters are discussed. Safety procedures and precautions necessary in machining uranium and uranium alloys are also covered. 30 figures.

[natecull]

I first heard of Townsend Brown and his Biefeld-Brown Effect from
Mr. Arlin C. Hauser. Hauser is a designer and builder of fine
technical instruments in Pasadena who doesn't hold an idea at arms-
length because it is "new". Hauser furnished me a copy of a
monograph titled, "A SIMPLIFIED EXPLANATION OF THE APPLICATION OF
THE BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT TO THE SOLUTION OF THE PROBLEMS OF SPACE
NAVIGATION". This monograph was published by Dr. Mason Rose,
president of the University for Social Research, Los Angeles, but
was actually written, I learned later, by Mr. Bradford Shank, a
nuclear scientist, formally of Los Alamos, now engaged in
engineering work for a Los Angeles aircraft valve manufacturer.

Hmm. Who's writing that? It's presumably someone in the 1960s or 70s, not Mark or Andrew? Who was Arlin Hauser, I wonder?

[htmagic]

Hmm. Who's writing that? It's presumably someone in the 1960s or 70s, not Mark or Andrew? Who was Arlin Hauser, I wonder?

Nate,

The article was here:
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/flying_s ... rown2.html

From the November, 1958 FATE magazine.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Two diagrams are available for this article which are listed on
KeelyNet under the title BRNGIF2.ZIP in the F) Pictures directory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Townsend Brown and his Anti-Gravity Discs
by Gaston Burridge

Langley, Great stuff! And so much information! It is hard to handle all this information. I will be glad when you get off vacation so I can handle the material!

The machining of uranium was interesting. The folks at Oak Ridge has chip fires from time to time and this contamination would freeze activities in that part of the building where these operations were occurring. There were area monitors to monitor radiation levels and hand/foot monitors for the workers. Originally, they used pancake type probes and Geiger-Mueller (GM) type detector heads. Then later they went to more sophisticated hand/foot monitors, some even with pumps to suck the contamination (radioactive dust) from the hands/feet and analyze it in a special chamber. Some detectors used scintillation crystals that would flash when a radioactive particle was detected. Then this would be seen by a photomultiplier tube and recorded as one pulse or count.

Nate, I don't know who Hauser is and have to run to work! Later!

MagicBill

[Langley]

Hmm. Who's writing that? It's presumably someone in the 1960s or 70s, not Mark or Andrew? Who was Arlin Hauser, I wonder?

Aha Magic Bill just provided the answer. I skimmed it, and was on my way back to sift it.

While the 2nd draft is going on Im doing a second search. And some time ago, I found some of these hits. But now things are clearer.

But there is stuff up now that wasnt found by me then. Could have sworn there were electrostatic mentions to Shank first time round.

Anyhow, point is, We got 2 concrete references to fission programs
GUNN: initial primary mover of the Navy uranium program. initially reactor, then used by Manhattan Project as a source of uranium for futher enrichment at Oak Ridge.

GUNN - NRL contact with FERMI in 39, contact with GROVES from 42.

SHANK - Los Alamos - Secret detachment of Manhattan Project and was a detachment of the University of California. The evolution of that is - Step 1.Nuclear Medicine at Crocker 2. Uranium Committee - Briggs, V. Bush, Ernest Lawrence etc. Lawrence starts moving Crocker (UC Berkeley) towards war work. Plutonium discovered at Crocker by Seaborg. First application of secret classification to work at Crocker predates Manhattan Project (Seaborg's work was "Limited, Secret") 4. Uranium Committee renamed S1 committee to confuse enemy. (and readers) 5. S1 Committee reformed and renamed Manhattan Project. Transferred to Groves. Los Alamos core personnel are U C Berkeley staff, including Oppie. Other staff include Hamilton who is detached for time to Argonne Nat Lab. Later returned and given charge of the Crocker Rad Lab, which served as major centre during Cold War for animals tests related to Sunshine.

SHANK had possible contacts and networks with oodles of those people. Probably Oppie.

Shank was closer to the core group of the Manhattan Project - including Segre than Gunn.

TT Brown moves away from proximity to NRL at a time coincident with Groves involvement with Gunn's Uranium project, but after Gunn's meeting with Fermi.

SHANK appears to be technically involved on a practicle level at Los Alamos. But the record of his activities there appear scant. Perhaps expunged. eg was well known enough and regarded enough to be involved in first open film on Hiroshima. Yet, no description of his role at Los Alamos is found on net. Not a minor personality.

The teaming of Brown and Gunn - that relationship - might yield clue to the science of Lorentz through Fermi. (Pointer: Twigsnapper's earlier pointer to look at Fermi.)

[Langley]

Langley, Great stuff! And so much information! It is hard to handle all this information. I will be glad when you get off vacation so I can handle the material!

The machining of uranium was interesting.

MagicBill

Hi Bill, I cant tell you how much help the book and the forum has been to me in my own area. I should type a first draft of my posts first I guess. But if I did that the gut feel gets attenuated.

Your reply is very interesting. The pancake gieger instrument is interesting. I never used one. You raise hot particles. "Skin dose hazard only". The crux of the debate. Anyhow, my linking Shank directly to uranium might be romantic. But here we have a highly skilled precision person, technical, no nonsense. Comes out and makes a bee line to the anti bomb set of activities, stops, (according to the found references) and devotes his time to Brown and writes that piece on the saucers. SO 1. The guys who came out of the Manhattan Project with an anti bomb inclination DIDNT STOP. (eg Commoner came out of Navy and is STILL going, though he wasnt Manhattan Project, Pauling risked all) 2. They were in conflict with the organisation (Manhattan Project/AEC and its leaders INCLUDING Teller) 3. In the early period (to the 60's). 3. None would have dared associating the Movement with controversial science. Questioning the science of the AEC was more than enough to have on their plates. 4. ALL of the regulars experienced official questioning of their security eligibility.

Yet Brown and Shank motored on regardless, Brown and his associations being trusted enough to enable Brown's inclusion in classified activities such as Argus.

Wiki doesnt cover it re security but "A back channel in the language of diplomacy is an unofficial channel of communication between states or other political entities, used to supplement official channels, often for the purposes of discussing highly sensitive policy issues."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-channel#In_diplomacy

A Back Channel has to be trusted by both sides.

STOP PRESS. I was just checking the google refernces for people involved with Shank
re that Los Alamos corrosion patent. Thought it might give a clue as to Shank's tasks there.
First hits:
Nuclear Fuels. - GURINSKY, DAVID H.,
Nuclear Fuels.; GURINSKY, DAVID H.,. Offered by Jonathan Grobe Books.
http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/grobe/34757.shtml - 4k - Cached - Similar pages
Nuclear Fuels - Gurinsky, David H. , G. J. Dienes, editors
Nuclear Fuels Gurinsky, David H. , GJ Dienes, editors D. Van Nostrand Co, Inc.
http://www.bookhouseindinkytown.com/si/ ... 57329.html -
Corrosion by Molten Metal David H ...
- [ Translate this page ]
熔融金属による腐蝕, Corrosion by Molten Metal David H. Gurinsky Metal Progress 69, 4, (1956/4), 160-164. Corrosion by Molten Metal David H. Gurinsky Metal ...
ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110003385135/

Neutronic reactor fuel element - Patent 2914454
Gurinsky, David H. Powell, Robert W. Marvin, Fox. Publication Date:. 11/24/1959. View Patent Images:. Images are available in PDF form when logged in. ...
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2914454.html

Canadian Patents Database

(12) Patent: (11) CA 727091
(54) LOW TEMPERATURE GRAPHITE RADIATION DAMAGE REMOVAL

(72) Inventors: (Country) DONALD G. SCHWEITZER (Not Available)
ROBERT M. SINGER (Not Available)
DAVID H. GURINSKY (Not Available)
(73) Owners: (Country) GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AS REPRESENTED BY THE (United States)

Mr Twigsnapper, did W. Bradford Shank help build design and manufacture parts for Fermi's Chicago Pile? or the others ?

Or was it the bomb itself or both? How miffed was he in August 45?

Have we got two channels here from Brown to Fermi? Gunn and Shank?

Oh my Lord:
Current Trends in International Fusion Research: Proceedings of ... - Google Books Result
by Emilio Panarella, National Research Council Canada - 2002 - Technology & Engineering - 622 pages
EDWARD CHESTER CREUTZ Edward Chester Creutz: Education: BS Mathematics and Physics, University of Wisconsin, 1936; Ph.D. Physics, U. of Wisconsin, 1939; ...
books.google.com.au/books?isbn=066018480X...
Emilio Sergè Visual Archives Shopping cart | Contact us | Track ...
Cox Charles A1 · Crane Horace A1 · Crane Horace C4 · Crane Horace D2 · Crane Horace F2 · Crane Richard D2 · Creer Kenneth A1 · Creutz Edward A1 ...
photos.aip.org/includes/C.jsp - 32k - Cached - Similar pages
UW-Madison College of Engineering Engineers' Day 1978 Award Recipients
EDWARD C. CREUTZ. Director, Bernice P. Bishop Museum, Honolulu, Hawaii. For his contributions to the nation's nuclear industry through his development of ...
http://www.engr.wisc.edu/eday/eday1978.html - Similar pages
Separating uranium containing solids suspended in a liquid ...
Document Type and Number:. United States Patent 2833618. Link to this page:. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2833618.html. Inventors:. Creutz, Edward C. ...
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2833618.html - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Welcome to Los Alamos. And the mates who worked with W. Bradford Shank.
Far out.
http://www.engr.wisc.edu/eday/eday1978.html#Creutz
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/

Ha, yea, it was reactors. Bead to Fermi. The Corrosion issue should have given it to me.

[PDF]
G:\Archives\Ahxasst\problem files\1110037.wpd
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Atomic and Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, and a history of the Los Alamos Project .... Creutz, Edward C., 1955, 1957-61, 1963. Ergen, W. K., 1960-61 ...
http://www.library.uiuc.edu/archives/uasfa/1110037.pdf
Engineering
Physics
Felix T. and Donatella Baroncini Adler Papers, 1939-86
Unprocessed Adler Reports
These nine boxes contain reports not written by Felix or Donatella Adler. They are
mostly concerned with nuclear reactor physics and were mostly distributed by
organizations with which Felix and/or Donatella had been associated.

The Manhattan Project Videohistory Collection
Collection Division 2 (Sessions 4-8) contains interviews with line workers, engineers, and physicists at the Clinton Engineering Works in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Dale F. Babcock, Edward C. Creutz

Title:
The Manhattan Project Videohistory Collection 1987-1990.
Forms part of:
Smithsonian Videohistory Program Agency history, 1986- .
Phy. Description:
29 videotapes (Reference copies).
Bio / His Notes:
The United States government established the Manhattan Project in 1942 to design, build, and deliver the world's first atomic bombs. The Project drew on academic, industrial, military, and human resources from across the United States and around the world.
Summary:
Stanley Goldberg, National Museum of American History, conducted videotaped interviews with men and women from all phases of the Project, often at their wartime workplaces.

Ok the other guys named on that patent with Shank are easy to find in the context of Los Alamos. But Not Bradford Shank.

Recap: The patent that connects Shank to reactor program. These are the world's first reactors. The project was Fermi's.

Shank, Walter Bradford, Gurinsky, David H., and
Creutz, Edward C.
METHOD OF MEASURING CORROSION AND EROSION.
2,519,323.
Patented Aug. 15, 1950.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2519323.html

Now, that begs the question, where did they get Shank from? NRL?
And why is he so redacted? The Atomic Heritage lacks appropriate record of him. He's at the Foundation.

Yikes !! and goodnight.

Oh, and there's this. The merit of 2 of the guys awarded that patent is lauded on the open record. The other one isnt mentioned. Yet the patent isnt Gurney et al, nor is it Creutz et al,
ITS SHANK ET AL. Who is shielding him so from the gaze of history? Naval Intelligence ? This guy wrote that: http://www.icestuff.com/~energy21/rose.htm and its the common public note on him.

[htmagic]

Langley,

Great stuff! And a lot of it! You must have had this already written in some sort of form to post this much. Or you sure can type a helluva lot!

The pancake probe looks like the one on the instrument here:

http://www.geigercounters.com/Detector.htm

On another page, we have:

Detector - An ultra-sensitive pancake style Geiger-Mueller detector, along with an extended angled handle, make this probe ideal for contamination detection and frisking. The Geiger-Mueller tube detects low levels of Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and X-radiation. This probe is configured with the same traditionally styled survey meter as used in the Prospector, with readout to 50 mR/hr. Price: $1,362

You raise hot particles. "Skin dose hazard only". The crux of the debate.

Yup, they only monitored skin doses. They would do a urinalysis if radiation was detected in the room with an area monitor. Then they would check to see what people were in the area at the time and check them more thoroughly.

MagicBill

[Langley]

Langley,

Great stuff! And a lot of it! You must have had this already written in some sort of form to post this much. Or you sure can type a helluva lot!
MagicBill

Hi Bill, I Think I get hypnotised when Im on the computer. When I eventually stop and look up at the time, its like that old movie, "The Lost Weekend". Probably cheaper than getting addicted to the screen flicker on pokie machines but. If I had a modern computer it would probably blow my brains out.

I used to use one of these, only it was Aust Army and yellow in colour
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/south ... dr27a.html
Typical cheapskates. 1951 origin and cost 150 bucks.

I've just re read pdf page 275 Chapter 62 of the official first draft, and I think Ive flogged it to death. Confirmation of Bradford Shank is pretty well sewn up. Only things are:
The link that somehow exists between Brown and Fermi in regard to the science behind Brown's work. 2. Things about Shank that indicate theres more. And maybe its something to do with this: The Navy was working U enrichment early. OK, maybe they worked on the fuel first, before they had any reactor to put it in. But surely, if they are working on fuel, they are working on reactor design as well. And if that's the case, the people who did the work would have been on Fermi's team. If it were me, well I'd build the car before I bought the petrol. But I might be unusual.

[htmagic]

Langley,

Yes, those meters remind me of the old Civil defense meters that were (and still are) out there:

http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmus ... dv715.html

And these:


http://www.radmeters4u.com/

I have an ion chamber model like the Victoreen in the first picture and an external probe type like the CDV-700. Both are yellow in color.

Yeah, I'd build the car first too. Rickover wasn't much of a scientist from what I heard, but he was big on nuclear and it was Rickover that got the nuclear navy.

Langley, you know that the boiling water reactor is not the only type of reactor to generate electricity. I'm sure you are probably aware of the radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG) used in the Systems Nuclear Auxiliary Power Program (SNAP) in the 1960s.

The first RTG launched in space by the United States was in 1961 aboard the SNAP 3 in the Navy Transit 4A spacecraft. One of the first terrestrial uses of RTGs was in 1966 by the US Navy at the uninhabited Fairway Rock Island in Alaska, where it remained in use until its removal in 1995.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisoto ... _generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_Nu ... er_Program

The RTGs now generally use plutonium 238 (Pu-238) and directly convert electricity from radioactivity. The RTG is an elegant and simple design, no harder to build than probably a gravitator or a capacitor array. The RTG to me has Dr. Brown's fingerprints on it. Call it a hunch but I would believe he may have been involved in the early development, especially if the Navy had one of the first RTGs to go into space.

Did Dr. Brown have his fingers in the RTG? Who knows? We know he was involved with caesium (Cs), we don't know if it was Cs-137. And the time frame certainly fits.

MagicBill

[Mikado14]

The RTGs now generally use plutonium 238 (Pu-238) and directly convert electricity from radioactivity. The RTG is an elegant and simple design, no harder to build than probably a gravitator or a capacitor array. The RTG to me has Dr. Brown's fingerprints on it. Call it a hunch but I would believe he may have been involved in the early development, especially if the Navy had one of the first RTGs to go into space.

YO Langley.....look....RTG's have reared their head again. That was around the time we were getting into ignitions....I think.

Mikado

[htmagic]

YO Langley.....look....RTG's have reared their head again. That was around the time we were getting into ignitions....I think.

Mikado

Mikado,

You're quite right, you guys WERE talking about this in 2007. And especially here, almost a year ago.
https://www.ttbrown.com/forum/viewtopic. ... =RTG#p7727
And although I knew about them before, I never connected Dr. Brown to one before because I didn't know his web of secrecy he hid behind. But the radiation badges at the Decker lab mean a lot more now with an radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG) than a Farnsworth fusor. Yes, the fusor will give off neutrons but the radiation badges for an RTG somewhere in the building makes more sense.

And the same post listed above ties in Floyd Odlum (discussed in PEOPLE & PLACES & DATES) who had Atlas Minerals and a uranium mine in Moab, Utah. We already know that Dr. Brown was looking at rocks and sands and his experiments with petrovoltaics. So the leap to a RTG is not a very big one, using a different crystal isotope and generating electricity directly from it.

But I agree with you, Mikado, that the RTG probably had too many environmental concerns with safe handling, licensing, etc. and Dr. Brown probably favored his electrokinetic generator.

MagicBill

[Langley]

Technically sweet.

Military applilcations esp for research purposes and the no moving parts of the rtg. Appealing.

Just a thought.
The mainly beta output of Sr90 (final step gamma) is easily shielded. If Sr89 used, still a useful life for prototyping devices but secure as its half life is 53 days not 28.9 years. And its pure, hard beta. Where would one get it easily - from synthesis in a cyclotron. Charles Pecher has a patent for the use of and manufacture of bulk lots of Sr89 at the Berkeley cyclotron. Worked on Radio strontium from 1939. Saves having to separate it out from reactor core. Anyhow. interesting.