lifters in a vacuum

For a discussion of the science of Townsend Brown, his experiments and his ideas.
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grinder
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passion and money

Post by grinder »

I don't believe that it should be an either/or situation. Those who have spent thier lives developing and promoting a product are entitled to be properly compensated for their time and effort and I agree with you Andrew that its important to keep the well being of your family near the top of the concern list. So it should be.

I don't think we are talking about greed here in this field. A greedy person could go to easier fields to graze. No, this one is tough and it takes inspiration and dedication to stay in it. You yourself have said Andrew that there are many new fields which this technology will spawn.

And Radomir you mentioned yourself that Dr. Brown also encouraged others to look at the other particular developments that he hadn't even mentioned. I envision that someday there will be a technological scramble for all for this material. Andrew has himself already set up and all of us will be looking in his direction to see what happens.

But that doesn't mean that he has that lid locked down. I believe that Andrew will concede that. He has things that interest him particularly and that is what he has followed. I am assuming that there is much more out there to be developed. So I guess what I am saying is. To those out there who get inspired on some of these ideas, and you think you can do something with it .... I would say Dr. browns most fervant wish would be for you to grab that inspiration and run with it. If you can develop new items from this technology and get them patented then go for it! Isn't that what this is all really about. Enough talking, more doing.

And if it helps by thinking that there are millions to be made .... then fine .... look what William Stephenson did with his can opener ....... but look also what that money allowed him to do in the future.

I think that Dr. Brown might say "GO FORTH" grinder
Mikado14
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either/or

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

Well, I certainly haven't been in it for the fame and fortune so far. I'm much more of the second type - I have a passion for the knowledge. It has been expensive at times and time consuming. I do have a "vision" of something that I am working towards, and that is really what drives me.

HOWEVER, there is the whole "how much money is it OK for a scientist to make?" Scientists and researchers are just regular people who want to provide for their families. If given the opportunity to advance my part of all of this, I certainly will take the opportunity to increase the comfort of my wife, LongboardLOVELY. Qualight, L.L.C. was set up to pursue the commercial (manufacturing and distribution) of all practical applications that have and will arise.
You can't say that you are of the second type and then in your second paragraph you claim that you would want to increase the comfort of your wife, that is a goal, you can't have both, therefore you are of the first type.

Look at Edison and Tesla. What categories would they be in?
Chris Knight wrote: As far as the radioactive boy scout, his youth and inexperience in life in general, led him to take chances, without investigating the ramifications, that ultimately put himself, family, and neighbors at risk. In an ideal world, a bit of maturation and wisdom would temper that headlong rush. In an ideal world.
Ok, I understood the implications of the story but my question was, "So who or whom do you propose to do the supervision of someone that would do experimentation with disc's?

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Mikado14
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Re: passion and money

Post by Mikado14 »

grinder wrote:I don't believe that it should be an either/or situation. Those who have spent thier lives developing and promoting a product are entitled to be properly compensated for their time and effort and I agree with you Andrew that its important to keep the well being of your family near the top of the concern list. So it should be.

I don't think we are talking about greed here in this field. A greedy person could go to easier fields to graze. No, this one is tough and it takes inspiration and dedication to stay in it. You yourself have said Andrew that there are many new fields which this technology will spawn.

And Radomir you mentioned yourself that Dr. Brown also encouraged others to look at the other particular developments that he hadn't even mentioned. I envision that someday there will be a technological scramble for all for this material. Andrew has himself already set up and all of us will be looking in his direction to see what happens.

But that doesn't mean that he has that lid locked down. I believe that Andrew will concede that. He has things that interest him particularly and that is what he has followed. I am assuming that there is much more out there to be developed. So I guess what I am saying is. To those out there who get inspired on some of these ideas, and you think you can do something with it .... I would say Dr. browns most fervant wish would be for you to grab that inspiration and run with it. If you can develop new items from this technology and get them patented then go for it! Isn't that what this is all really about. Enough talking, more doing.

And if it helps by thinking that there are millions to be made .... then fine .... look what William Stephenson did with his can opener ....... but look also what that money allowed him to do in the future.

I think that Dr. Brown might say "GO FORTH" grinder
Grinder,

I will not comment one way or the other. I am merely looking for a mind set.

I will explain a little later.

Oh, check your PM

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
Chris Knight
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

Of course I can be both. I said that I would take the opportunity if it arised. Granted, I could don a sack-cloth and be perfectly altruistic, but who would take care of my home and my family?

Would it be OK if I made $40,000 per year doing research ? What about $50,000 ? Would $160,000 be too much ? Or $350,000 ? Is there a cut-off to which a researcher is entitled ? It's a question that's actually come up before.

Shall I give all proceeds to charity ? Shall I give all R&D results developed by Qualight, L.L.C. to NASA or Toyota ? Money makes the world go 'round. I would be a fool to compromise the welfare of my family and home, and I would be a poor husband if I did not take my wife's interests in consideration in everything I do.

As far as supervision of someone working with discs, I don't propose that anyone supervise the experimentation with discs, although I suppose bureaucracy has a way of spreading into every nook and cranny. I someone wishes to do research on the discs, I say "have at it and good luck." I am always happy to assist anyone who asks specific questions to me in a rational manner, as to the extent it does not intrude into proprietary areas.

I am personally ill-equipped in time (mortality) to bring what probably would eventually amount to millions upon millions of inventions based upon the development of the coupling between electromagnetic and gravitational forces. Look at the coupling between electrostatic and magnetic forces - sure, it makes electricity, but a whole lot more as well.
Andrew
Qualight Environmental
(http://www.qualight.com, http://www.qualightenv.com, http://www.qualightscp.com)

"If you think the situation is under control, then you don't truly understand the situation."
Mikado14
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I stand corrected

Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

Of course I can be both. I said that I would take the opportunity if it arised. Granted, I could don a sack-cloth and be perfectly altruistic, but who would take care of my home and my family?
Would it be OK if I made $40,000 per year doing research ? What about $50,000 ? Would $160,000 be too much ? Or $350,000 ? Is there a cut-off to which a researcher is entitled ? It's a question that's actually come up before.
Andrew, the question stood as it stands, which one are you. You cannot be both. You have modified the question to fit your answer, not the other way around. No one is saying that you cannot take care of your family. However, look at it this way. You are on the verge of a breakthrough with something that has been a passion for you. Would you mortgage the house? Are you a Tesla, a Farnsworth or an Edison, a Westinghouse?

As to your question about how much money i.e. $40,000 up to $350,000 being enough, that is not the issue to the question that I put forth.


Chris Knight wrote: Shall I give all proceeds to charity ? Shall I give all R&D results developed by Qualight, L.L.C. to NASA or Toyota ? Money makes the world go 'round. I would be a fool to compromise the welfare of my family and home, and I would be a poor husband if I did not take my wife's interests in consideration in everything I do.


You have blown my simple question way out of proportion here. Somehow you have managed to turn it into a question of philantrophy vs. responsibility or whatever. It appears again as if you are being defensive of some issue. Is it due to the fact that I questioned the 20 years that you have had access to Dr. Brown's notebooks? If it is, it is merely in response to your posting such information and my wondering what you have done. Apparently quite a bit if Qualight has proprietary information above and beyond Dr. Brown's work, therefore, I stand corrected.

I will state this, a researcher or whatever, financially benifitting from their work is not what I said or was referring to. I was only after mindsets and what drives individuals.

In looking at your website, I can see the expenditure of the lab equipment and salaries of the qualified researchers, in that vein, yes, a ROI is expected and you should be compensated in any amount since you were the original risk taker in the initial funding.

Perhaps my question was out of line, but.........in a way that only I can understand, you have answered my question.

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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Post by Chris Knight »

Mikado,

I don't think your question is out of line. let me try to answer better. I'm not sure I understand why there must be an either / or, but...

I was originally introduced into this line of research in odd circumstances, and it is my passion for the knowledge that has kept me going. It gives me great pleasure when experimental results turn out satisfactorily. But, in spite of that, if I were to take the opportunity to benefit financially from it, I were to be labelled as doing it for the money, well, then so be it. Let people think what they will.

I didn't realize I said I had access to Brown's notebooks for 20 years. I forget if I have. I have been friends with the Brown family for 20 years. The importance of the notebooks is a starting point for research and will be a confirmation for what we will have learned in the future.

As to mortgaging my house, I think it would be more efficient to use someone else's money. Money is cheap.
Andrew
Qualight Environmental
(http://www.qualight.com, http://www.qualightenv.com, http://www.qualightscp.com)

"If you think the situation is under control, then you don't truly understand the situation."
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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choices

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I am on sort of a roll here regarding the framework of peoples lives and the choices that they make to define those frames. Mikado and Andrew have had a discussion I see about finances and research and a family mans responsibilities and I wanted to add something that I have learned over the last four years.

If there are those of you out there who expect to find in Townsend Brown the epitomy of the loving family man, ready to sacrifice for those he loved .......... You are not seeing the real Townsend Brown.

He was a driven individual. His first priority was what he continually called “ The Projectâ€
Mikado14
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Post by Mikado14 »

Chris Knight wrote:Mikado,

I don't think your question is out of line. let me try to answer better. I'm not sure I understand why there must be an either / or, but...
There must be an either/or. The question is to see where the fire is, in your belly or in your wallet.

What you don't know about me is what I have done, what it cost me in terms of funds (it's only money, always make more of that) but also in terms other than money. I lived, my family lived, and my children lived for the ship. I had a come uppance with the ......establishment. I ended up choosing my family and that annoying habit they all had,....the need to eat.
I thus eventually went into other areas, teaching and farming to name a few.

If it weren't for the .....establishment... oh hell, let's call it what it REALLY is. The Friggin' Oil Establishment and their strongman known as the Federal Government.

So let's talk about it, I have anonymity here. You want to know something? I am divorced, both my daughters went down the aisle without me on their arm, I am going to be a grandfather and the only way I will see the child is when they give a picture to my Mother. That is my history and not yours, I have no complaints. But I will tell you this, to go back in time, to thumb my nose at ...them, and do it all over again, I would, but this time, my choice would be different but I would want all the knowledge that I have acquired in the interim and I would do things differently for in the end, I believe my family would have benefited as well as society. I will now donate my soapbox to Dayton, Ohio.

We all have priorities in life. You live for the knowledge but it is not your priority. There is nothing wrong with that. Others live life to quench a fire in their belly and in my opinion, you are not that.

With respect as always,
my opinion,

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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Post by Chris Knight »

Perhaps, but still, it would be nice to enter the game with the knowledge one exits with.

That is why I attempt to surround myself with people who have experience and practical knowledge in the hopes that I can avoid some of the pitfalls one can only gain through experience.
Andrew
Qualight Environmental
(http://www.qualight.com, http://www.qualightenv.com, http://www.qualightscp.com)

"If you think the situation is under control, then you don't truly understand the situation."
LongboardLOVELY
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Passion and Money (Greed/Avarice, or Altruism)

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

If I followed my passions, I would probably not make any money. I earn a living, but am not passionate about what I do (some days). So, Mikado, which am I?

If Andrew were more interested in making money than in the scientific endeavor I see him at most evenings of the weekdays, then he probably would have chosen a simpler path; such as starting his own religion - said with my tongue in my cheek - or selling party supplies.

He mentioned distractions to seeing his life's ambitions fulfilled. He chose family first, then career before he chose his research. And now he is having it all. We have great respect for each other's lives as well as the combined life we have together. So you see, there is no reason to have to make a choice.

If OR When Qualight achieves the status that Andrew desires of it as a Research and Development Company, then as a scientist his duty (loyalty) would be to benefit mankind. His life's achievements would fund his living expenses, and we would probably upgrade a level or two. But is this his goal? As his wife, I know his primary goal isn't about the money. You could say that it's probably more about the satisfaction of knowing that he was right.

And That Townsend Brown was right.

LongboardLOVELY

ps. I believe ya'all were talking about arcing and lifters, not about financial incentives.
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
Bulwark
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A job

Post by Bulwark »

I hope I am not out of line and jumping into something here but wouldnt there be a difference between a job and a dream? Wouldn't how one pursues one or the other be different? You need a job to live but a dream is more than that.

Just a newbie,

Bulwark
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Post by Chris Knight »

Bulwark,

Well, here's my 2 cents.

The way I perceive life is that there are two things you do - you do what you must do and you do what you love. If you're lucky, then what you must do is what you love, but if it isn't, then do what you must do so you can do what you love.

That way, the purpose of doing what you must do is that you can do what you love, and it makes going into the office each day to do what you must do much more bearable :)
Last edited by Chris Knight on Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew
Qualight Environmental
(http://www.qualight.com, http://www.qualightenv.com, http://www.qualightscp.com)

"If you think the situation is under control, then you don't truly understand the situation."
Bulwark
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Post by Bulwark »

Hi Chris! pleased to meet you!

I agree with what you say but I have found through life that my loves change at times and that I needed the "do" to continue them. But then that is wrong as well for I wouldn't be doing what I am doing if I just did the do. But I still don't see how that answer's the original question.

Could be me,

Bulwark
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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passions

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

Just a little comment from my end of things.

This discussion has been interesting but I am not sure where it is going.

We have been talking about the passions of our inspirations .... the passions of our day to day lives .... Then there's MOTIVATION.

We are entities which need to eat. We need to raise and protect our families. Thats the reality there.

This "inspiration" to go above and beyond that has always been a puzzlement. Why do we worry about anything more than we absolutely need? Why is music important? why do we worry about making things "beautiful?" Why do we ponder what is beyond our reach or past our understanding? I don't know. But whatever that is ..... That inspiration is definitely there and its what makes us human.

So having to "chose" between the two? Well, maybe we just have to learn to recognize that BOTH are part of our makeup. If we swing ttoo far to one side we are humans living in our own boring box (but we wouldn't know it) ... on the other end we could be considered "dreamers" without a grasp on "reality".

I submit that we are both .... swinging back and forth as circumstances demand. Elizabeth
Mikado14
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Re: Passion and Money (Greed/Avarice, or Altruism)

Post by Mikado14 »

LongboardLOVELY wrote:
If I followed my passions, I would probably not make any money. I earn a living, but am not passionate about what I do (some days). So, Mikado, which am I?


The question was directed at Andrew, not LongboardLOVELY. I posed the question the same way it was posed to me in 1975 by a Professor I had and everyone in the class tried to change the question to fit what their thinking was.

The question was not in regard to his job or anyone's job. I work for I need to eat and purchase medicine but I can assure everyone here, I am not passionate about the job either. You must follow your own path as to how you will perform your job and you will answer for how well it is done, not I.

I think it is admirable that you feel the need to answer for your husband but I suppose since you remember "duck and cover drills" you may be more of a mother figure, but then I am basing that upon the last one that I remember taking place was in the first half of the 60's here in Pennsylvania, I could be wrong elsewhere in the country. However, they still have them in a tri-county area, every first Monday of the month at 2 PM for the local Nuke and that has been for over the last 20 years. The exception is that you don't have to "duck and cover".

One last thing, your answer:

LongboardLOVELY wrote: "....satisfaction of knowing that he was right.

And That Townsend Brown was right. "

...makes it look like it is more about Andrew than anything else for Dr. Brown was mentioned as an after thought.

I have a further question. Looking at Qualight's website, do you help in the reasearch or do you go around to the different educational institutions? How much do you partake in the daily operation of the LLC in it's goals?

In the event that you do have an active part, How much of Dr. Brown's work do you understand?

Just curious,

Mikado
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy
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