Chapter 62 - Meet the Browns of Ka-Lae-Hau

Use this section for any discussion specifically related to the chapters posted online of the unfolding biography, "Defying Gravity: The Parallel Universe of T. Townsend Brown
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Paul S.
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Chapter 62 - Meet the Browns of Ka-Lae-Hau

Post by Paul S. »

....is now online for your reading pleasure

https://www.ttbrown.com/defying_gravity/62_wainiha.html

Viewing pleasure, too -- lot's of pictures with this one.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
kevin.b
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Post by kevin.b »

A couple of things jumped out at me, and they are strangely aligned.
The girls a sagittarious, as one, I realise the consequences, too honest for our own good , too frank , but totally loyal.
The second is sidereal radiation, and how that is connected to the zodiac is timing.
I posted I believe this link before, its about ridge and furrow farming here in England, as a dowser I am convinced they were set out by dowsers on alignments , to maximise the relative sidereal radiation contained along the alignments, and thus where and when to plant which crop will have been a question of timing, timing matching Dr Browns sidereal radiation variations.
I can track these and detect the alterations, I consider Dr Brown will have been tracking the variations caused by the relative positions of other stars and star systems.
Maybe its because I am a dreamer of a sagittarious nature, but I consider that the stars control us and everything as they transfer ELECTRICALLY across and between themselves.
Maybe we can latch onto the transfer system , and go , who knows where?
The Stars?

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/BA/ba33/ba33feat.html
Kevin
fibonacci is king
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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where the four points meet

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

In some papers that Dr. Brown left for his daughter ( referred to by the few who have seen them as the " Rain on the Windows papers) he mentioned to her that something " spectacular" would happen " where the four points meet" and I understand for most of her life now she has been searching for those " four points".

Thinking at first of course that it was a point on the map perhaps. A special compass point. But thats not what it is entirely, is it Navigator?Elizabeth
grinder
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great, great, great.

Post by grinder »

Paul,

Still digesting all of this. Hardly know where to start.

Amazes me that he would take his family that far into the boondocks,AND THEN LEAVE THEM...... for how long????

Trying to imagine what it was like for that family. How strong Josephine must have been at the time. I felt too for his son. Its an adventure but his Dad is not there with him and where are his friends and .... well ... I can see that while he had much he also missed much.

My life was not unlike Josephs in some ways. When I really needed my Dads company he was not there.

And frankly, regarding Mary Townsend Brown. I think that she was finally having the time of her life. just a flash thought.

And Spirito and Puscheck? The men in "black????" that showed up in Florida in 1965? What the heck? What role are they going to play? But of course now we have to wait for the next chapter to find out!

Great chapter Paul. I don't want to lessen its importance but you got me on a roll now you know and I want to know where it all goes next.

Nobody for sure has said or known this much about what Townsend Brown was up to. The fact that you can present all of this as well as you have establishes you as THE authority on Townsend Brown.

You say you have so many holes in the story but at least you have the story! Great, great, great! I want MORE!

Linda Brown must be very proud of what you have done here. grinder
Victoria Steele
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barking sand?

Post by Victoria Steele »

Paul,

I just thought that this chapter was wonderful. Its going to take us weeks to go through it and really appreciate everything that you have put out there.

One thing reached up and sort of hit me, Regarding the reason that he might have chosen that beautiful valley. Nearby you mentioned " barking sand" and I thought of all of the conversations that we have had regarding him collecting sand here and there and his interest in it. Point one.

Point two. I am not so sure that the whole electroculture thing wasn't just a cover for what was really going on, though I don't think that he brought the real whole thing there with his family being right there too. But he was still working with high voltage, notice? Almost like the kid that just has to read his comic book under the sheets, with a flashlight.

No, he obviously was involved in a lab and a staff somewhere else and I doubt that it was Hawaii. He wouldn't move his family to keep them safe and then set up his lab right next to them.

And more power to Josephine too. I'll just bet that she could go directly to Sir William Stephenson through that mans secretary or someone up there close. Like Paul said, I am sure that she had her "connections" too and was not shy at using them to protect Dr. Brown. She was his best ally for sure.

Really appreciate the chapter Paul. I won't bug you. For a few days! Victoria
Langley
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Great stuff

Post by Langley »

Thoroughly enjoyed this. So much to think about. So well written, economic, precise. Wish I could do it.

Hawaii was an important place in measuring the effects of high altitude H bombs (eg Starfish Prime). these tests had sets of aims. One was to generate
earth currents. For this purpose probes were placed in the ground to measure
the natural earth electrical current. The bomb was then detonated at the
edge of space, and the pulse of electromagnetic energy and electrical flow was measured. These experiments resulted in the ionispheric heater RF trans
mitters located initially in Colorado. This work culminated in HAARP.

By investigating electricity and plant growth, Brown would have put in place some mechanism whereby natural electrical flow could be boosted. That means putting in juice, measuring it. He would ave first obtained a sort of "background reading" - the natural field. Then he could have applied varying currents and measured them. He would have been able to measure the flow, the lines of least resistence and so on. Its no wonder Teller popped up in his lab. The best cover practices are those that actually function. and the biological effects of electricity revolve around as I understand it, ( ) the enhancement or inhibition of ion flow at the cellular level. This is crucial to correct metabolism and cell health. Its why older mobile phones were probably a health hazard.

As for your account of the formation of the military industrial complex and the concern of people within the Manhattan Project Paul, its a wonderfully concise brilliantly written piece.

Fact is I guess the Manhattan District people who had reservations were all heavily investigated by the FBI, they all had FBI files. People who knew them were grilled. At Groves insistence.

So its no surprise that Brown had an FBI file. His association with the Los Alamos etc people who partitioned for a demonstration were all investigated and were "suspect". Groves was the grand master, he, Lawrence and a few others knew the total scheme, the rest were isolated in compartments. Medicine was separated from physics and so on.

And here we have Brown off on an island, associated with people Groves considered suspect, doing research on the biological effects of radiated energy!. From my little window, Im thinking, shit, this guy knows too much from the war, we are entering the atomic test era, he moves to the lowest fallout area he could find, one which also turns out to be important from a geo-electrical view point too. Least the AEC did in 62, when they stuck probes there. He must have been viewed as necessary nuisance by Teller, who was observing weapons effects such as electrical and magnetic pulse and induction from bomb tests dove tail into aspects of what Brown was doing when he built those antenna. (Was that at Vega)

Anyway, whatever Brown did, what ever he laid out to pump juice into the sugar cane, turn it off and connect meters to it and you have a passive monitoring reciever.

And thats exactly what Teller did when the voltage probes for Starfish Prime were placed in the earth on Hawaii. Teller was watching Brown, and it didnt pay in those days to worry Teller, who effectively took over from Groves. Brown's work anticipated weapons effects. These were secret. Brown wasnt cleared to know. Teller wanted to fry electrical circuits on earth and in incoming missiles. (all a and H bombs, East and West, incorporate fail safe mechanisms to avoid risk of accidental detonation. Fry the circuits, and they wont detonate.)(open knowledge of that was a security risk at the time of course) Brown's apparatus on Hawaii might even have been capable of registering unannounced and secret atomic tests. So I guess that means the Caroline Group was a form of protection for him.

(I dont think Brown moved to Hawaii due to the threat of nuclear war. I think he was avoiding fallout. He spirited his family away in a low fallout region. At least one prime scientist involved in the Nevada tests at the time advised their relatives to move from high fallout areas) Have a look at Caroll Gallagher's composite fallout map of the USA from the Nevada Test site. The clouds go West to East, away from Hawaii, not toward it. His awareness of the harm is another reason why Teller would have distrusted him, as Teller was in the business of telling everyone its was all perfectly safe. People like Linus Pauling who expressed opposing views were labelled Communist and investigated at that time.)

Long winded and confusing, sorry. Chapter pressed my button.

Oh oK, maybe the Caroline Group was an acceptable "compartment", one which made everyone less unhappy with what Brown had always known, but which with the A bomb and then the Cold War became military secrets.

Report on Project Gabriel was written in 1948 and security cleared for public release in the 1980s.
Brown's radiation research lab in the Los Angeles area, capable of monitoring close in fallout, his work on the effects of electricity on plants, his association with those who opposed atomic testing, his appreciation of ions, all point to him having an aim of producing an ionic protective against the effects of A bombs. Which of course emit ionising radiation. And that all puts him in the same sphere as Linus Pauling, who was commissed by the US to come up with chemical protectives.
When is a front not a front?
Last edited by Langley on Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul S.
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Re: Great stuff

Post by Paul S. »

Langley wrote:Long winded and confusing, sorry. Chapter pressed my button.
Fascinating post there, Langley. A LOT to chew on. Thanks for taking the time to float all those balloons. Glad I pressed your buttons, thanks for pressing back.

--PS
Paul Schatzkin
aka "The Perfesser"
"At some point we have to deal with the facts, not what we want to believe is true." -- Jack Bauer
Langley
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Re: Great stuff

Post by Langley »

Paul S. wrote:
Langley wrote:Long winded and confusing, sorry. Chapter pressed my button.
Fascinating post there, Langley. A LOT to chew on. Thanks for taking the time to float all those balloons. Glad I pressed your buttons, thanks for pressing back.

--PS
This is no work for me. It is a very healing excersize for me. Thank you for writing the chapter. It is brilliant.

Just this week, America lost a Native American leader and campaigner from the NTS area. He passed away from prostate cancer.

I cant possibly be right with all of it. Logical consistency isn't proof. But Id be amazed if Brown and Pauling didn't cross paths.

Report on Project Gabriel in text form is here:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/radiation/ ... r11i1a.txt

I made an error in my previous post. It was published in July 1954. But it was in operation from the post war era, and took in aspects of the biological effects of Trinity device.

To quote salient points :
II. CONSIDERATIONS INVOLVED

Estimates of the radiological hazard to man resulting from radioactive
fallout involve considerations which may be classified as follows:

Deletions made for brevity.
C. Observed distribution of debris:
1. Near point of detonation 2. Remote from detonation
D. Behavior of fission products in physical environment:
1. Air 2. Water 3. Soil

E. Uptake and metabolism of fission products by plants. NB

F. Uptake and metabolism of fission products by man and animals. NB
G. Effects of exposure of humans to radiation:
1. Radiation from sources external to the body.
2. Radiation from radioisotopes within the body. NB


III. ORGANIZATION

Within the Atomic Energy Commission, the

Division of Biology and Medicine is responsible for effort specifically directed towards GABRIEL. NB

Such effort includes both the support of experimental and field studies
and the correlation of relevant data from a wide range of
extra-divisional activities. NB

A. Theoretical studies:

A theoretical analysis of the long range aspects of GABRIEL was made
in 1949 by Dr. Nicholas M. Smith, Jr., 1, 2 Oak Ridge National
Laboratory, at the request of the Atomic Energy Commission. Smith
concluded that Sr-90 is by far the most hazardous isotope resulting
from nuclear detonations, and that the distribution of this isotope
over large areas of the earth's surface constitutes the limiting factor
in estimating the long-range hazard from the use of a large number of
atomic bombs. (NB only true long term. Sr90 is minor fission product close in time. )

In 1952 RAND Corporation was given a contract to make an independent
study of GABRIEL, with some emphasis on the short-range aspects of
fallout. Study of this phase, later called AUREOLE, has been carried
as far as present information appears to permit, and a report has
been prepared.3

The gummed paper is here assumed to have an
efficiency of 100%, although probably it is less than 50% end quote.

See also The transfer of calcium and strontium across biological membranes; proceedings of a conference held at Cornell University, Ithaca, New York, May 13-16, 1962,
by R H Wasserman; U.S. Atomic Energy Commission.; Cornell University.
Language: English Type: Book
Publisher: New York, Academic Press, 1963.
OCLC: 1489881
Subjects: Strontium in the body -- Congresses. | Calcium in the body -- Congresses. | Biological transport

See also http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:18513
Tsitologiia. 2006 ;48 (7):569-77 17087148
[Effect of plasma membrane ion permeability modulators on respiration and heat output of wheat roots]
[My paper] V A Alekseeva , L Kh Gordon , N L Loseva , G G Rakhimova , A N Tsentsevitskiĭ

secrecy and 1948
In 1948 former Manhattan Project researchers pressed the AEC to declassify data from human experiments for inclusion in a history of Manhattan Project medical research as part of a group of publications called the National Nuclear Energy Series, or "NNES." In February 1948, the University of Rochester's Harold Hodge complained about classification officers gutting his chapter on uranium toxicology. "I would like," Hodge wrote, "to advance the argument that Chapter XVI does not report experiments with humans, and should never have been classified on this basis in the first place."[40]

The researchers sought a "final policy" decision on reports regarding plutonium and uranium from the Division of Biology and Medicine and its advisory committee. In a March 15 letter to a participant in the NNES project, Oak Ridge's Holland reported that it was "the feeling" of these groups that the reports should not be declassified. "While I am sure we both fully appreciate the desirability of declassification, I feel certain that the various individuals concerned will also understand and appreciate the reasons for this decision."[41] (The minutes of the March 10, 1948, ACBM meeting, themselves declassified in 1994, do not refer to the policy decision.)

The policy of classifying reports for reasons of public relations and liability was not limited to human experiments conducted under the Manhattan Project; it extended to at least one human experiment conducted under the AEC. In late 1948, Division of Biology and Medicine chief Shields Warren stated his "complete agreement" with Oak Ridge's Holland that a report on a 1948 University of California experiment with zirconium (the research has since become known as the "CAL-Z" experiment; see chapter 5) had to be kept under wraps.[42] The report had to remain secret because "it specifically involves experimental human therapeutics" and could not be rewritten in a way that "would not jeopardize our public relations."[43]
(ACHRE Report, Chapter 13: The Practice of Secrecy
The AEC Addresses Secret Manhattan Project Experiments,)
http://www.hss.energy.gov/healthsafety/ ... p13_3.html
Last edited by Langley on Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
twigsnapper
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Good response

Post by twigsnapper »

Good response Langley. Always nice to see your posts.
Anyone find this project name as ironic as I have?

Kramish, et al. R-251-AEC, the Rand Corporation (Aug. 6, 1953).
"World-wide effects of atomic weapons, Project Sunshine". (S)

As Linda Brown discovered upon visiting the Rand Corporation in the fall of 1967 there are many layers to the building, most of them hidden from view of the passing public.

twigsnapper
flowperson
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Post by flowperson »

I noted, with interest, on a recent visit to the LA beach communities last winter that much of the original campus of Rand Corp. in Santa Monica has been demolished and replaced with more modern infrastructure. Most of the spaces occupied by the 50's builldings is now open space. Chez Jay's and Cora's Cafe are still there though.

Bill and Ted are probably wearing black armbands, but then... they were from San Dimas were they not ? Sure would like to run across their old phone booth.

flow.... :wink:
Dancing is better than marching
LongboardLOVELY
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The Rand Corp

Post by LongboardLOVELY »

twigsnapper wrote:Good response Langley. Always nice to see your posts.
Anyone find this project name as ironic as I have?

Kramish, et al. R-251-AEC, the Rand Corporation (Aug. 6, 1953).
"World-wide effects of atomic weapons, Project Sunshine". (S)

As Linda Brown discovered upon visiting the Rand Corporation in the fall of 1967 there are many layers to the building, most of them hidden from view of the passing public.

twigsnapper
Boat's moving again ... I alway feel seasick when it takes off!
First of all, I believe with this post from Twigsnapper, the mention of the RAND corporation is up to 25 times so far in these forums. The next closest non-human subject is sand, mentioned about 15 or 16 times. I need to count again (on a faster computer). I don't think that Andy B 's aware of the new chapter. I'm going to go downstairs in a minute and tell him about it.

Great chapter Paul! Also, I found an old book in the libary at home that has old postcards. It's a big BIG reference book. When I get home, I'll look for rainbow fountains at the Wash. Monument.

I didn't get all the pictures. It's probably the computer I'm on. But just in case, can you check your links?

Thanks!

LBL
Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. ~ Albert Einstein
Langley
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Re: Good response

Post by Langley »

twigsnapper wrote:Good response Langley. Always nice to see your posts.
Anyone find this project name as ironic as I have?
Kramish, et al. R-251-AEC, the Rand Corporation (Aug. 6, 1953).
"World-wide effects of atomic weapons, Project Sunshine".
(S)

As Linda Brown discovered upon visiting the Rand Corporation in the fall of 1967 there are many layers to the building, most of them hidden from view of the passing public.

twigsnapper
You are a kind and wise soul sir. RAND's study of Gabriel produced Project Sunshine (NATO code word for fallout) . Ironically Vitamin D plays a major role in the uptake of calcium and strontium from the gut and in its internal mobilisation. RAND hand picked the experts to conduct Sunshine.

The bees in my bonnet give me the buzz that one method of shutting up opponents of the AEC (MP dies and AEC born 1947) is to give them something to do and in the commissioning of it, the opponents signs papers. Which include secrecy agreements. Brown in Washington in 1948.

Oh I see Wikipedia sez this about Kramish:

Arnold Kramish was a physicist and author associated with the Manhattan Project. As part of that, he was nearly killed in an accident at the Philadelphia Naval Yard where a prototype diffusion isotope separation device was being constructed. (See Timeline of the Manhattan Project, 1944, September 2.) The priest of the Philadelphia Naval Yard offered last rites to Kramish, who refused, as he was Jewish. Despite this terrible accident, he survived. He wrote numerous books on nuclear issues, perhaps best known for writing the book The Griffin - the greatest untold espionage story of World War II, which tells the story of Paul Rosbaud.


That is ironic. What the heck are they doing building an isotope separator in the Philly Naval Dock yard?
grinder
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odd

Post by grinder »

What a cool piece of information. And odd too. I agree with you Langley.

And I especially appreciate the way that Mr. Twigsnapper comes out of nowhere with a link that is so important and so on the mark. Are you sure you were never a fighter pilot Sir? You really know how to lock onto a target.

So with all of this new information and my attention focused now properly <g> I have to ask too " What the blank were they really doing? "

And now that we know that someone strongly associated with Dr. Brown was involved himself in the beginnings of the Manhattan Project ( Bradford Shank?) I am just wondering if we aren't looking at the vestiges of some sort of " Caroline "onion skin " operation?

You know, an operation within an operation! These research guys were so highly compartmentalized during this time I am not sure any of them would be able to put anything together. If there was an alternate program being runright alongside them, could they tell? Something at the Philadelphia Navy yard would recieve the highest attention to security. And if something went wrong, either in the development of the bomb, or something else, I am sure in the years to come there would be a massive disinformation campaign to cover things up. Is that what happened actually?

When William Moore repeated what HE had heard about the story of the " Philadelphia Experiment" it was rather ornate with visions of terrible things happening to the crews. Could this " accident" at the Philadelphia Navy yard have been the core of that myth? just asking. And where was Dr, Brown in 1944 again? (edit, edit, edit ..... in 1944 he ws supposed to be living in Burbank and working for Vega? right?)Supposedly contemplating moving his entire family to Hawaii came much later in 1945? and it took to 1947 to get moved?) Even his mother. Now fellows, a person doesn't do that for the sheer joy of it. I don't think he wanted his family anywhere where they could be "reached" and perhaps kidnapped. I am sure that the move was a matter of security for his organization.

But if he was not on the island as Paul mentioned and he was closer maybe to Washington(???) then what the heck was happening? Meanwhile what was Mr. Shank doing? Seems like, while Dr. Brown was at Vega Mr. Shank was up to his eyeballs in the Manhattan Project. Where did they meet again? At Vega in 1944? Anybody seeing some correlations here maybe folks!

And I always have wondered who the heck said it was "Project Rainbow" anyway. How did Moore come to call it that in his book? That Project Sunshine gave me the shivers.

Great response Langley. You sure know your onions! <g> grinder
Elizabeth Helen Drake
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find it interesting

Post by Elizabeth Helen Drake »

I personally find it interesting that a man who is almost killed in an "accident" of some kind at the Philadelphia Navy Yard chooses later to write a story about a man who was so very little known (Paul Rosbaud ) but who apparently was a very valuable spy for Winston Churchill during World War Two.

To me, that description might also have read "and an operative for Sir William Stephenson"

Which lends some interesting considerations and possibly conclusions into the mix here, or am I leaping too many gators in the stream? Elizabeth
grinder
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perceptions

Post by grinder »

I don't know Elizabeth. It does seem a jump.

But I see where you are trying to go here. Perhaps this Arnold Kramish was somehow involved in a "Caroline Operation" there at the Navy Yard. He is nearly killed and of course can't say anything about that particular situation, but with the help of some insiders, he might be able to write about a man who had not gotten any real credit before that time.

Might have some called Paul Rosbaud an " obscure British spy?". Gee. Thats sounding just a little familiar! At least the "obscure" part. Maybe Dr. Kramish got a packet of information slipped under his door or left in his mailbox about this Rosbaud, maybe with the comment that this would make an interesting story and he should write it. Maybe there was a promise of more information and help if he took the project on. Gee, sounding even more familiar.

Of course Elizabeth, you and I probably went off the deep end a very long time ago, gators or no, but it makes some sense to me in my current world! grinder
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